40K Un buffed Health - Pally, Warrior, DK

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40K Un buffed Health - Pally, Warrior, DK

Postby branwell » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:06 pm

Hi,

I am wondering.

Given 40K un buffed health, will a Pally, DK, and Warrior tank have aprox the same EH?

I ask because a DK tank wanted to put me in a different position stating that my health was several K lower then his.

My though was that Pally's carry more armor all else being equal and that sort of equals things out.

Has there been any discussion on this?

Best,

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Re: 40K Un buffed Health - Pally, Warrior, DK

Postby Argali » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:53 pm

Ok, since effective health is how much damage you can actually take, not just how much hp you actually have, you need to compare hp, armor, and damage reduction.

Well, I kinda lie since you're converting the armor into damage reduction anyway xD

Paladins have 12% passive DR, and an extra 6% against magic.
DK's have a passive 10%, 2% extra if they are frost, 6% extra against magic if they are unholy.

All paladins have AD, but it's hard to quantify accurately. Blood DK's have WotN, which is hard to quantify too.

However, since most deaths will because by something big, such as Soul Reaper, you can easily try to work out an estimate with AD or WotN.
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Re: 40K Un buffed Health - Pally, Warrior, DK

Postby Gamingdevil » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:31 pm

Wasn't AD about an 8% health increase? Not really sure about WotN and too lazy to do the math. :P But since it's 15% compared to AD's 20% damage reduction, it should be slightly less.
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Re: 40K Un buffed Health - Pally, Warrior, DK

Postby Argali » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:21 pm

The value of AD is hard to quantify, as it depends on the fight, and your healers.
If your healers never let AD kick in, then it's worth 0% DR.

Also, WotN works totally differently to AD. The DR of AD is applied only to the damage portion that AD covers. If you take a hit that does 100% of your hp, only 30% will get a 20% DR.

With WotN, if a hit would take you below 30%, the entire hit is reduced by 15%.
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Re: 40K Un buffed Health - Pally, Warrior, DK

Postby theckhd » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:42 pm

Argali wrote:The value of AD is hard to quantify, as it depends on the fight, and your healers.
If your healers never let AD kick in, then it's worth 0% DR.

It's not hard to quantify, it's a flat 8.75% increase in Effective Health.

Trying to establish some other "value" for AD is a bit nebulous. Sure, it does nothing if your healers never let you fall below 30%. On the other hand, if you never fall below 30%, you're never going to die either, at which point it hardly matters which tank you choose.

@branwell: This thread has an overview of Effective Health theory that can be adapted to any tanking class. For simple physical damage, you can use an abbreviated formula:

Code: Select all
    EH = H*(1+A/K)/(1-Mt)

Where H is your fully-buffed health, A is your fully-buffed armor, Mt is your baseline physical damage mitigaton from talents and buffs (i.e. anything other than armor, so 10% from talents would be 0.10), and K=467.5*L - 22167.5 for an attacker of level L.

For a paladin you'd multiply by 1.0875 as well to account for AD. I'm not familiar with the mechanics of Will of the Necropolis, but if it works as described in this thread it would indeed be tricky to get a flat EH multiplier for it. You might want to ignore AD and WotN and pretend they cancel each other out to get a simple comparison.
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Re: 40K Un buffed Health - Pally, Warrior, DK

Postby Argali » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:53 pm

Awesome stuff.

Here's how WotN works, if a source of damage would take you below 30%, the entire hit is reduced by 15%, i.e. if you have 100k hp, and you take a 71k hit, it gets reduced by 15%.
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Re: 40K Un buffed Health - Pally, Warrior, DK

Postby Argali » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:40 pm

Ok, I fail at logic.

As long as the hit would take you below 30% WotN can be treated as just a flat 15% DR.
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