Low TPS

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Re: Low TPS

Postby Chandie » Mon May 24, 2010 9:57 am

Also sorry for the triple post, just needed to say that our World of Logs recorder slacked so I dont have the logs for Lichking and Putri, it's unfortunet aswell as they would have gone a long way to helping me out. (I tanked Putri and MT went in Abom).
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Re: Low TPS

Postby Meloree » Mon May 24, 2010 10:35 am

Well, there's definitely part gear and spec issues. That doesn't mean it's ALL gear and spec issues. I'd love to see a parse of a specific fight where you're having specific problems.
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Re: Low TPS

Postby lythac » Mon May 24, 2010 4:49 pm

Your BQL parse -

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-s ... 430&e=8744 [{"eventTypes": [6], "sourceNames": ["Chandie"]}]

(Show events where event type is Spell cast and source is Chandie)

Doesn't look right to me.
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Re: Low TPS

Postby Chandie » Mon May 24, 2010 5:20 pm

What exactly do u mean Lythac? I'm not good at Logs so I dont know what your hinting at. XD
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Re: Low TPS

Postby Meloree » Mon May 24, 2010 7:46 pm

He means you're not doing 969 at all.

Shield, Hammer, Judge, wait, Shield, Hammer, Judge, Holy Shield, Consecrate, Shield, Hammer, wait, Judge, Shield, Hammer, Consecrate, Holy Shield...

You should be doing:
Shield, Judge, Hammer, Holy Shield, Shield, Consecration, Hammer, Judge, Shield, Holy Shield, Hammer, Consecration - 969. So named because you use a 9 second cooldown ability (Holy Shield, Consecration, Judgement) followed by a 6 second cooldown (Shield of Righteousness, Hammer of the Righteous), followed by 9, followed by 6, ad nauseum.
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Re: Low TPS

Postby Chandie » Mon May 24, 2010 9:19 pm

Ok! Well tbh it's great that you guys pointed it out. I have a tendancy of leaning towards Avengers Shield -> Hammer -> Judge ext. Shield and conc ussualy come last. But it's great that you guys have pointed this out :) Thanks alot for the help guys, very appreciated :)! <3
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Re: Low TPS

Postby golfinguy » Mon May 24, 2010 11:53 pm

Chandie wrote:Well lets take lichking for example. The encounter started and I slamed an avengers shield on him, ran up to him and put out some TPs (100-150k). Then I went to position him properly and before he had even moved (he was casting defile) he turned around and gibbed a warrior who had over agrod. Happend both in 25 and 10. ><'


Wanted to revisit this one. Does anyone else besides me think this was the warriors fault? Kiting the boss at the outset of an encounter has always provided challenges for tanks. You have to get out of range for them to move afterall. Sure, there are things you can do - but we've always held off on 'opening a can' until he's into position.

After taking the time to become good at tanking (and leveling a healer), I've become jaded about most dps (even though I am one too). In general they are lazy, reckless, and expect tanks and healers to overcome their mistakes and inadequacies. I also blame charts for this as well - too many place value on chart topping over executing proper encounter mechanics. Take away the chart and perhaps they will dps the adds/orbs/etc - as it is it seems they cannot be bothered :evil:
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Re: Low TPS

Postby Barathorn » Tue May 25, 2010 2:28 am

golfinguy wrote:
Chandie wrote:Well lets take lichking for example. The encounter started and I slamed an avengers shield on him, ran up to him and put out some TPs (100-150k). Then I went to position him properly and before he had even moved (he was casting defile) he turned around and gibbed a warrior who had over agrod. Happend both in 25 and 10. ><'


Wanted to revisit this one. Does anyone else besides me think this was the warriors fault? Kiting the boss at the outset of an encounter has always provided challenges for tanks. You have to get out of range for them to move afterall. Sure, there are things you can do - but we've always held off on 'opening a can' until he's into position.



I personally would have used Exorcism + Avengers Shield to pull as I find that gives me massive threat off the bat coupled with a MD and/or Tricks and the most dangerous time for me is 0-30 seconds into any fight if anyone gets a crit run immediately, once past that I generally salv on CD and everything pans out ok.

In this instance the warrior asked for a problem to happen. Positioning is key to many encounters and anyone going into their full on damage rotation prior to the tank getting comfortable and getting into position[as long as the tank doesn't take ages] is asking for trouble.
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Re: Low TPS

Postby Gamingdevil » Tue May 25, 2010 2:32 am

golfinguy wrote:
Chandie wrote:Well lets take lichking for example. The encounter started and I slamed an avengers shield on him, ran up to him and put out some TPs (100-150k). Then I went to position him properly and before he had even moved (he was casting defile) he turned around and gibbed a warrior who had over agrod. Happend both in 25 and 10. ><'


Wanted to revisit this one. Does anyone else besides me think this was the warriors fault? Kiting the boss at the outset of an encounter has always provided challenges for tanks. You have to get out of range for them to move afterall. Sure, there are things you can do - but we've always held off on 'opening a can' until he's into position.


Yes, I actually do think it was the warriors fault.

Back to the original topic: Don't take this the wrong way, but you say you're an avid reader of Maintankadin and yet you spec 2/2 SA, while you only need 1/2 (point could go to a threat talent like Conviction) and Reckoning (could go into Vindication or Conviction and even 1 point in Crusade). And apparently, as other pointed out, you don't know your 9696.

I suggest you start out but learning to do 9696 (on a dummy for instance) and see how that improves your TPS, then have a look at your spec again.
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Re: Low TPS

Postby Chandie » Tue May 25, 2010 9:19 am

Gamingdevil wrote:
golfinguy wrote:
Chandie wrote:Well lets take lichking for example. The encounter started and I slamed an avengers shield on him, ran up to him and put out some TPs (100-150k). Then I went to position him properly and before he had even moved (he was casting defile) he turned around and gibbed a warrior who had over agrod. Happend both in 25 and 10. ><'


Wanted to revisit this one. Does anyone else besides me think this was the warriors fault? Kiting the boss at the outset of an encounter has always provided challenges for tanks. You have to get out of range for them to move afterall. Sure, there are things you can do - but we've always held off on 'opening a can' until he's into position.


Yes, I actually do think it was the warriors fault.

Back to the original topic: Don't take this the wrong way, but you say you're an avid reader of Maintankadin and yet you spec 2/2 SA, while you only need 1/2 (point could go to a threat talent like Conviction) and Reckoning (could go into Vindication or Conviction and even 1 point in Crusade). And apparently, as other pointed out, you don't know your 9696.

I suggest you start out but learning to do 9696 (on a dummy for instance) and see how that improves your TPS, then have a look at your spec again.


The current build I have atm was requested by the guild officers, It's not like im going to decline them. And aye thanks to everyone for pointing out the errors! :) Much appreciated. I always thought I was doing a 6969 rotation tbh, Avengers Shield -> Shield of the Righteous -> Hammer -> Judge -> Holy Shield -> Conc, but tbh it's great that you guys pointed out the errors I was making. One can only learn and improve so this is a great help. Thanks alot guys :)!
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Re: Low TPS

Postby yappo » Tue May 25, 2010 11:35 am

Chandie wrote:
The current build I have atm was requested by the guild officers, It's not like im going to decline them.


Your NON-TANKING guild officers?
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Re: Low TPS

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue May 25, 2010 12:52 pm

yappo wrote:Your NON-TANKING guild officers?


To be fair, if he refuses them, he may not be tanking either. :lol:
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Re: Low TPS

Postby theckhd » Wed May 26, 2010 5:11 am

yappo wrote:
Chandie wrote:The current build I have atm was requested by the guild officers, It's not like im going to decline them.

Your NON-TANKING guild officers?

This has always confused me. I don't impose spec choices on my raiders outside of a very few select situations (i.e. "I need one shadowfury/typhoon for this fight, one of you go respec" or "We need the physical debuff, switch to arms"). I work under the assumption that for the most part, my raiders have a much better understanding of their class than I do. The only ones I feel confident nitpicking are moonkins and aff warlocks, since I have raid-worthy alts of those specs. Luckily, I have several other officers that help cover the rest of the theorycraft spectrum.

But the mindset of "I'm an officer and therefore know your class details better than you do" seems illogical. Outside of very rare cases, no officer has the time to be an expert on every class/spec combination. If you can't trust your raiders to know their class better than you do, then you must not think very highly of your raiders.
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Re: Low TPS

Postby lythac » Wed May 26, 2010 5:23 am

theckhd wrote:But the mindset of "I'm an officer and therefore know your class details better than you do" seems illogical. Outside of very rare cases, no officer has the time to be an expert on every class/spec combination. If you can't trust your raiders to know their class better than you do, then you must not think very highly of your raiders.


This may be the case for guilds with decentish progression, but way down here on World rank 9351 we have a lot of the "I know this spec isn't cookie cutter but I have tried this and it works great!", "screw 96969 using my higher damage damage abilities first and when of CD is better because they do the most damage".

Don't necessarily know each class inside out, but if players vary from the cookie cutter specs (which are cookie cutter for a reason) they better have a good reason for doing so. Most don't.

Thankfully I have some raiders who know what they are doing and between all officers/decent raiders we cover most classes pretty well. Still don't impose spec choices on people but always let them know our well reasoned opinions.

OPs guild are progressed enough that they shouldn't need to be doing this, but then again in the nicest possible way OP wasn't doing 96969 so no idea what the other raiders are doing.
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