Akil'Zon Kicking my butt

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:30 pm

Yeah the normal timers will show you when he's able to do the ability again, but there is still a window in which he can cast it. So you are right in thinking that your safest bet is to cut it as close as possible (assuming everybody is definitely able to get there in time) to minimize the time he can cast the static charge on the group.

We always use 7 seconds till storm as our standard collapse timer. Worst case we've never had more than 2 charges go off. Typically though it's 0 or sometimes 1 charge until the storm hits which shouldn't be an issue as long as people are topped off. It sounds like stylaan has had more charges hit so I think it's just luck at that pointon how the timers hit. But that's usually the riskiest part of the fight.
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Postby ari » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:23 pm

first attempts on him last night.... such a fun fight, and the gauntlet is a blast :)

we use the collapse on tank method, seems to work a treat we get our enhance shaman to chuck a few chains in addition to priest and resto shammy group healing; had no problems with static charge coming in 5 seconds before storm.

for the MT storm thing out of 6 or 7 attempts i was targetted with the storm twice.

my threat lead was both times at least 30k above the nearest, and both times i was stormed everyone was already sitting around the boss....

we also had a pet stormed once while we were all safely around the boss >.< silly hunters :P
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:50 pm

ari wrote:first attempts on him last night.... such a fun fight, and the gauntlet is a blast :)

we use the collapse on tank method, seems to work a treat we get our enhance shaman to chuck a few chains in addition to priest and resto shammy group healing; had no problems with static charge coming in 5 seconds before storm.

for the MT storm thing out of 6 or 7 attempts i was targetted with the storm twice.

my threat lead was both times at least 30k above the nearest, and both times i was stormed everyone was already sitting around the boss....

we also had a pet stormed once while we were all safely around the boss >.< silly hunters :P


Storm targetting definitely has something to do with range then.
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Postby Stylaan » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:47 pm

Blaen99 wrote:
ari wrote:first attempts on him last night.... such a fun fight, and the gauntlet is a blast :)

we use the collapse on tank method, seems to work a treat we get our enhance shaman to chuck a few chains in addition to priest and resto shammy group healing; had no problems with static charge coming in 5 seconds before storm.

for the MT storm thing out of 6 or 7 attempts i was targetted with the storm twice.

my threat lead was both times at least 30k above the nearest, and both times i was stormed everyone was already sitting around the boss....

we also had a pet stormed once while we were all safely around the boss >.< silly hunters :P


Storm targetting definitely has something to do with range then.


How do you figure? In fact, the post you quoted has nothing to do with range other than the fact everyone is humping the boss.
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:49 pm

Stylaan wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:
ari wrote:first attempts on him last night.... such a fun fight, and the gauntlet is a blast :)

we use the collapse on tank method, seems to work a treat we get our enhance shaman to chuck a few chains in addition to priest and resto shammy group healing; had no problems with static charge coming in 5 seconds before storm.

for the MT storm thing out of 6 or 7 attempts i was targetted with the storm twice.

my threat lead was both times at least 30k above the nearest, and both times i was stormed everyone was already sitting around the boss....

we also had a pet stormed once while we were all safely around the boss >.< silly hunters :P


Storm targetting definitely has something to do with range then.


How do you figure? In fact, the post you quoted has nothing to do with range other than the fact everyone is humping the boss.


for the MT storm thing out of 6 or 7 attempts i was targetted with the storm twice.


Further testing today which will definitively prove or disprove my current theory as to storm mechanics as well.
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Postby Stylaan » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:53 pm

Blaen99 wrote:
Stylaan wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:
ari wrote:first attempts on him last night.... such a fun fight, and the gauntlet is a blast :)

we use the collapse on tank method, seems to work a treat we get our enhance shaman to chuck a few chains in addition to priest and resto shammy group healing; had no problems with static charge coming in 5 seconds before storm.

for the MT storm thing out of 6 or 7 attempts i was targetted with the storm twice.

my threat lead was both times at least 30k above the nearest, and both times i was stormed everyone was already sitting around the boss....

we also had a pet stormed once while we were all safely around the boss >.< silly hunters :P


Storm targetting definitely has something to do with range then.


How do you figure? In fact, the post you quoted has nothing to do with range other than the fact everyone is humping the boss.


for the MT storm thing out of 6 or 7 attempts i was targetted with the storm twice.


Further testing today which will definitively prove or disprove my current theory as to storm mechanics as well.


I would think that him being the MT, having a significant threat lead, and having everyone around him would already disprove your theory that the storm can't target the MT.
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:10 pm

Stylaan wrote:I would think that him being the MT, having a significant threat lead, and having everyone around him would already disprove your theory that the storm can't target the MT.


I think we've already established that the storm can target the MT. Blaen's talking about figuring out under what circumstances it happens, as it doesn't seem to be purely random (since some raids seem to never have this happen, enough so that simply being lucky doesn't explain it).
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Postby Stylaan » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:23 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Stylaan wrote:I would think that him being the MT, having a significant threat lead, and having everyone around him would already disprove your theory that the storm can't target the MT.


I think we've already established that the storm can target the MT. Blaen's talking about figuring out under what circumstances it happens, as it doesn't seem to be purely random (since some raids seem to never have this happen, enough so that simply being lucky doesn't explain it).


Seems kind of silly that you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, even if the MT is stormed there's no loss of aggro or anything like that.
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:48 pm

Stylaan wrote:
Dorvan wrote:
Stylaan wrote:I would think that him being the MT, having a significant threat lead, and having everyone around him would already disprove your theory that the storm can't target the MT.


I think we've already established that the storm can target the MT. Blaen's talking about figuring out under what circumstances it happens, as it doesn't seem to be purely random (since some raids seem to never have this happen, enough so that simply being lucky doesn't explain it).


Seems kind of silly that you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, even if the MT is stormed there's no loss of aggro or anything like that.


I'm unsure as to why you are posting on a theorycrafting board if you have this attitude.
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:10 pm

Verified it tonight.

Range has something to do with it.

I'm unsure just as to the mechanics on it, but I'm able to semi-reliably manipulate his positioning to trigger a desired player.

It is typically one of the furthest people away from him. I want to say the furthest person away from him, but I cannot guarentee that yet.
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Postby mconeone » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:04 am

One of our big problems with eagle was the collapsing. Not that we couldn't do it, in fact we did in many times perfectly. Our problem was that there was a good 50% chance we'd take an AOE bomb in the group, stretching our healers thinner than we already were. If we waited any longer, we'd run the risk of wiping due to a far-off person getting lifted.

One thing that worked was to circle around the boss, when the collapse point was reached we got closer to the boss while only being in aoe range of 2-3 people. At this point everyone was looking for the storm and ran under the person who got it. There were maybe 1-2 people who took a decent amount of damage, but since the healers weren't trying to bring the whole raid up it wasn't difficult. The added consistency of this went a long way.
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Postby gwayne » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:20 am

We managed the bear and eagle boss on the timer this week and I thought I'd add my theories about the Eagle.

If someone doesn't run into the middle ("Oh I wanted to finish my heal") then sure as eggs are eggs the storm will be on them. Possibly it has something to do with targetting the person furthest away from all other players. As MT I have been affected by storm, it's not a problem though; he doesn't attack and you don't lose aggro.

The thing that kills you is aoe while you are grouped up. Raid healing is so important in this fight that I usually let a warrior tank pick him up and throw on my healing gear. If anyone goes into the middle without full health then theres a good chance they will die.

I use BigWigs (possible out of date) and I always find the first storm is early. The other times we collapse with no more than 5 seconds left on the timer and we rarely get more than 1 aoe.
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Postby Blaen99 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:09 am

gwayne wrote:We managed the bear and eagle boss on the timer this week and I thought I'd add my theories about the Eagle.

If someone doesn't run into the middle ("Oh I wanted to finish my heal") then sure as eggs are eggs the storm will be on them. Possibly it has something to do with targetting the person furthest away from all other players. As MT I have been affected by storm, it's not a problem though; he doesn't attack and you don't lose aggro.

The thing that kills you is aoe while you are grouped up. Raid healing is so important in this fight that I usually let a warrior tank pick him up and throw on my healing gear. If anyone goes into the middle without full health then theres a good chance they will die.

I use BigWigs (possible out of date) and I always find the first storm is early. The other times we collapse with no more than 5 seconds left on the timer and we rarely get more than 1 aoe.


Can't be. If this where the case, I'd get stormed every time with the strat we use - I'm the furthest away from the group.
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Postby jere » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:44 am

Blaen99 wrote:
Can't be. If this where the case, I'd get stormed every time with the strat we use - I'm the furthest away from the group.


Read his post more carefully Blaen, he says "if someone doesn't run to the middle" the storm hits them. He uses the "collapsing on the tank" method. I have already shown the MT getting the storm is very possible and frequent enough in that strategy (and a few others have seen it too). He is using a different strat than your group is.


gwayne wrote:The thing that kills you is aoe while you are grouped up. Raid healing is so important in this fight that I usually let a warrior tank pick him up and throw on my healing gear. If anyone goes into the middle without full health then theres a good chance they will die.


What type of healing are you doing during that situation? Priests should be using AoE heals. If it is bad, a druid should pop tranquility. If you have shaman, then they should be chain healing. The AoE damage is a bit nasty sometimes, but it can be healed through if people are anticipating it.
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Postby Blaen99 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:48 am

jere wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:
Can't be. If this where the case, I'd get stormed every time with the strat we use - I'm the furthest away from the group.


Read his post more carefully Blaen, he says "if someone doesn't run to the middle" the storm hits them. He uses the "collapsing on the tank" method. I have already shown the MT getting the storm is very possible and frequent enough in that strategy (and a few others have seen it too). He is using a different strat than your group is.


Ah, yeah, read it a bit more closely.

After analyzing last night's data, I think the storm simply targets the person furthest away from him. Or the 2 people furthest away, chosen randomly. Something like this.

The mechanics somehow work on the people furthest away. As I mentioned, I could semi-reliably manipulate where the storm went, but there was some randomness involved that I can't quite compensate for.
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