Remove Advertisements

Okay WTF is Prince's problem?

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby lusisia » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:40 pm

Korath wrote:Ive been hit for 22K in 1.2seconds on prince without a crush or crit... it happens, just gota hope the spam healing is higher than the dmg :)


I think that's what I was trying to avoid by disengaging in p2. It's not as dangerous now that reckoning isn't part of my build but I was really concerned about parry haste whacking me down before anyone could do ANYTHING.
"then somehow people manage not to see the forty fucking foot tall of fucking fiery flames of fucking doom ... and we wipe." - Isolfr
"It turns out that a large number of people are whiny motherfuckers ..." - PsiVen
User avatar
lusisia
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1627
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:11 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA. US

Postby Melathys » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:38 am

before I started disengaging during phase 2, more than once, I've taken 8 hits in less than a second. That has yet to happen since I've started disengaging, in fact, I've run out of mana during phase 2 several times.

Though that is a point, with reckoning gone, maybe I'll stay engaged and not go oom. lol
Image
User avatar
Melathys
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:08 pm

Postby Vanifae » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:59 am

I guess I have never disengaged on phase 2.

I can't even remember the last time I took an extreme burst in that phase.
This is why I'm a humorless feminist. Because rape jokes killed my sense of humor.
Minnerva wrote:if you act like a jerk then we push you away unless when born the girl got slapped around by her father.
User avatar
Vanifae
 
Posts: 7123
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:36 am

Postby Dorvan » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:10 am

Vanifae wrote:I guess I have never disengaged on phase 2.

I can't even remember the last time I took an extreme burst in that phase.


Neither have I, but no one had thought of the idea back when I was tanking Prince....it's not like threat gen is a problem on that fight (I used to use a Sun Eater for phase 2 anyway), seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Postby Vanifae » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:16 am

Dorvan wrote:
Vanifae wrote:I guess I have never disengaged on phase 2.

I can't even remember the last time I took an extreme burst in that phase.


Neither have I, but no one had thought of the idea back when I was tanking Prince....it's not like threat gen is a problem on that fight (I used to use a Sun Eater for phase 2 anyway), seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Yeah I suppose it is.

Interesting way to handle it.
This is why I'm a humorless feminist. Because rape jokes killed my sense of humor.
Minnerva wrote:if you act like a jerk then we push you away unless when born the girl got slapped around by her father.
User avatar
Vanifae
 
Posts: 7123
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:36 am

Postby Invisusira » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:18 am

Vanifae wrote:Foolish way to handle it.

fixt! !!!!!!! !! ! !! !!!!!!
User avatar
Invisusira
Moderator
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:23 pm
Location: alt-tabbed

Postby lusisia » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:00 pm

Invisusira wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Foolish way to handle it.

fixt! !!!!!!! !! ! !! !!!!!!


Aww comeon Invis, you're an intelligent person. You can do better than that =P

What's a valid reason not to disengage other than adding our pitiful dps and keeping a judgement up?

The way I look at it, it's less risky to swing like a bad ass and risk him getting parry haste than it isn't. I mean if we can keep agro with Exorcism, HS and consecrate then it seems like a fine idea.

I mean if there are legitimate reasons TO engage, then I will. I know the fight is buggy already (enfeeble the tank anyone?) but it seems like a smart move.

Or do we not get the benefit of parry avoidance unless we're actually swinging in combat? If that's the case then it makes sense NOT to disengage.
"then somehow people manage not to see the forty fucking foot tall of fucking fiery flames of fucking doom ... and we wipe." - Isolfr
"It turns out that a large number of people are whiny motherfuckers ..." - PsiVen
User avatar
lusisia
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1627
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:11 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA. US

Postby Invisusira » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:07 pm

There is no reason NOT to engage him. None.

Like I said before, you will not wipe because of a parry, even two or three. If you do wipe when he parrys, you would have wiped anyway.

By keeping him enganged, you are keeping your mana and threat topped off, allowing for maximum dps. Your DPS IS being forced to hold back if you are just standing there. No question about it.

If and when someone passes you, even for a second, you can wipe the raid by getting enfeebled. That is FAR more risky than any parry will ever be.

So! There you have it.
User avatar
Invisusira
Moderator
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:23 pm
Location: alt-tabbed

Postby Everlight » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:12 pm

Parry haste on Prince isn't as bad as people make out. He doesn't hit incredibly hard per attack, and so hasting one of his attacks isn't as catastrophic as it is on, say, Gruul.

I've never disengaged on him. And now, I'd rather not, since he doesn't really hurt me enough as it is, and I want to keep a judgement up and my threat high.
Everlight
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 5:48 pm

Postby xyzor » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:33 pm

I still disengage, only because that is how I've always done it, and it something kind of fun and different. When we were doing progression kills on him, i think it made a big difference. Prolly no reason to do it now, but I still do. I NEVER have threat issues during any Phase of that fight, even with the disengage. Between Exo, consecrate. etc., I maintain threat just fine. Maybe next time I won't disengage, just for shits and giggles.

To anyone who is doing a progression kill though, if you are having trouble living through Phase 2, try the disengage method....it works.
Image
xyzor
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:53 pm

Postby Invisusira » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:10 pm

xyzor wrote:To anyone who is doing a progression kill though, if you are having trouble living through Phase 2, try the disengage method....it works.

I personally feel it's especially bad to do during progression. Stage 2 and 3 are all about going full out max dps no holds barred, and this is something you simply cannot if you're disengaged.

Sure, you can hold aggro. But I'm willing to bet a large chunk sum of monies that your DPS is not going full out, be it subconsciously or not. Maybe they're watching Omen/KTM. Maybe they're just being careful. Both are things that they should not need to do in this.

On top of all this, having Wisdom on Prince the whole time is IMMENSELY helpful to the raid. My hunters especially LOVE having that up.

If you're having trouble living through Phase 2, persevere. This is a healing intense fight, and the healers have a lot of moving around to do. When you finally do get though Stage 2 without dying problems, it will not be because you disengaged and he didn't parry. It will be because your healers have gotten the whole "moving around and healing" thing down.

Do.

Not.

Disengage.
User avatar
Invisusira
Moderator
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:23 pm
Location: alt-tabbed

Postby Candiru » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:29 pm

you can turn off autoattack and STILL keep up JoW by attacking once after each judgement (hard not to do anyway.)

It definitely makes healing you easier, and your threat should be through the roof from exorcism and shield block on P2 anyway, DPS should be no-where near you.

Obviously if you are having threat troubles then you can't do this, but I am always so far ahead on prince its fine to loose your Seal threat which isn't that high a % of total threat anyway.
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Postby Comma » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:20 pm

Candiru wrote:It definitely makes healing you easier, and your threat should be through the roof from exorcism and shield block on P2 anyway, DPS should be no-where near you.


Plus consecration, avenger's shield, and avenging wrath.
User avatar
Comma
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:24 pm

Postby Minn » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:53 pm

Would you rather play Russian Roulette with 2 bullets or 1? Disengaging does reduce the chance of a deadly spike, and for many guilds working on Prince, keeping the tank up through P2 is the primary challenge. Tapping once or twice to refresh JoW is a good idea.

I'd be willing to wager that if your DPS can pump out enough damage to make a well played tankadin sweat looking at threat meters, you're not going to have problems on Prince. Being a demon with a healthy damage output (at kara/heroic level gear) a high attack rate, and no aggro dump, Prince M is pretty much ideal for paladin threat generation. When your DPS can pour out enough damage to keep up with that threat generation, P2 isn't going to last long, and you won't have many opportunities to die. At that point your survivability doesn't depend much on engaging or not and threat becomes more of a concern. Until then, consider disengaging.
Minn
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 7:51 am

Postby lusisia » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:30 am

Invisusira wrote:
xyzor wrote:To anyone who is doing a progression kill though, if you are having trouble living through Phase 2, try the disengage method....it works.

I personally feel it's especially bad to do during progression. Stage 2 and 3 are all about going full out max dps no holds barred, and this is something you simply cannot if you're disengaged.

Sure, you can hold aggro. But I'm willing to bet a large chunk sum of monies that your DPS is not going full out, be it subconsciously or not. Maybe they're watching Omen/KTM. Maybe they're just being careful. Both are things that they should not need to do in this.

On top of all this, having Wisdom on Prince the whole time is IMMENSELY helpful to the raid. My hunters especially LOVE having that up.

If you're having trouble living through Phase 2, persevere. This is a healing intense fight, and the healers have a lot of moving around to do. When you finally do get though Stage 2 without dying problems, it will not be because you disengaged and he didn't parry. It will be because your healers have gotten the whole "moving around and healing" thing down.

Do.

Not.

Disengage.


Fair enough. I appreciate the input. I don't think we have any dps problems. I made sure and asked if the DPS was holding back at all after the wipes and they said they weren't P2 was taking no time at all. Every single wipe was at 36%.

I'll try it while engaged. I will admit that I was only 10k higher than the person below me on Omen so maybe they were unintentionally holding back because I was a new tank for them. Dunno.

As I said, it might not be as big of an issue now that I don't have Reckoning and you do make a valid point that if a parry haste burst will kill me then I probably (as is evident by the results of the three attempts) would have died anyway.

It's definately a fun fight and it's a huge raid check.
"then somehow people manage not to see the forty fucking foot tall of fucking fiery flames of fucking doom ... and we wipe." - Isolfr
"It turns out that a large number of people are whiny motherfuckers ..." - PsiVen
User avatar
lusisia
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1627
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:11 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA. US

PreviousNext

Return to Karazhan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
?php } else { ?