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[25H] The Lich King

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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Puni » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:51 am

Quick Question to Felyndiia beside the congratulations to your LK HM kill, of course :)

this topic has been brought up on tankspot too, but without satisfying result and I wanted to ask you directly. Could you explain how the following entries in your killlog are possible?

Code: Select all
[19:48:08.693] Shambling Horror hits Felyndiia 3998 (A: 19413, B: 1733)
[19:48:11.134] Shambling Horror hits Felyndiia Absorb (19463)
[19:48:13.535] Shambling Horror hits Felyndiia Absorb (23507)
[19:48:15.685] Shambling Horror hits Felyndiia Absorb (20763)
[19:48:18.092] Shambling Horror hits Felyndiia Absorb (27393)
[19:48:19.067] Shambling Horror begins to cast Enrage
[19:48:20.065] Shambling Horror gains Enrage from Shambling Horror
[19:48:21.617] Shambling Horror hits Felyndiia Absorb (70177)
[19:48:22.051] Shambling Horror's Enrage fades


I can think of only 4 reasons for such absorbs:
1) PW:S --> shouldn't be more than 12k absorb
2) Guardian Spirit --> was cast on you only after the 70k absorb
3) Ardent Defender --> procct later in the fight
4) Valanyr --> if I understood the blue post concerning Valanyr Shield correctly, multiple Valanyrs can in fact contribute to the same bubble, bit it can't exceed 20.000, so the first absorb might be understandable, but I can't believe a new 20k Valanyr Bubble can be created only 2.5s later for the next big absorb, not to mention the 70k guy in the last line :D

unless i'm missing something, is this a c.log bug?
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Felyndiia » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:45 am

I missed the post on tankspot, thanks ;)

My first thought was: WTF?!
I guess it's a bug, I coudln't find a source for these absorbs and our healers have no idea, too.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Gaffer » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:21 am

Can anyone explain this to me:

For the Horde parse:
[19:49:22.100] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Nadee
[19:49:30.403] Mococo Interrupt Raging Spirit Immune


My guild's parse:
[19:54:19.298] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Saampson
[19:54:21.937] Adrenaa casts Growl on Raging Spirit
---------------------------------------------------
[20:21:07.875] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Daeian
[20:21:10.322] Magma Totem VII Magma Totem Raging Spirit 810 (R: 90)


Have EU servers not been patched to immediately spawn Raging Spirits?
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Boyfriend » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:50 am

EU servers definately do not spawn raging spirits immediately.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby chinoquezada » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:26 am

Boyfriend wrote:EU servers definately do not spawn raging spirits immediately.


Not cool, though I would call this an annoyance to US-Servers rather than unfair disadvantage.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Belloc » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:30 am

I'd call it a disadvantage to EU servers.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby inthedrops » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:41 pm

Belloc wrote:I'd call it a disadvantage to EU servers.


In the big picture I don't think it matters. But I liked the old way where the people have a second or two to stand in front of the tank. This way if you're already tanking an add you can guarantee it'll be facing how you want it to be facing. As opposed to taunting it from your direct left and it being more or less behind you and you start getting parranoid and make adjustments that cause the mobs to move.....you get the idea :)

I didn't have problems taunting them in time the old way. It's easier to taunt them now but they aren't as easy to position.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Belloc » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:05 pm

Yeah, I don't really care either way... but the quicker spawning is an advantage for min-maxers.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Gaffer » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:44 pm

inthedrops wrote:In the big picture I don't think it matters.


It's definitely not make or break by any stretch. But it is certainly annoying to not be able to control positioning on Raging Spirits and lose someone to an instant melee or a Raging Spirit that comes from 90 degrees that Soul Shrieks into your orb handler. I know we occasionally lose someone in this manner.

Belloc wrote:Yeah, I don't really care either way... but the quicker spawning is an advantage for min-maxers.


The timing of the Raging Spirit spawns has not changed at all. Previously, you were warned sevenish seconds prior the spawning of a Raging Spirit so the initial phase 1 mob went. If they just added the case instead of changing the spawn timers on Raging Spirits, the fourth raging spirit in the second transition phase would spawn twenty-one seconds later on EU servers.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Belloc » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:26 pm

I'm under the impression that the spirits spawn when he casts the spell to spawn them. In other words, he's still casting the spell at the same intervals, there's just no wait time on the spawn. In other words, the last spirit's spawn process would still be initiated at the usual time, just that the process is shortened.

I don't have accurate spawn timers, so let me use an example:

OLD: 15 seconds, spirit target chosen. 22 seconds, spirit spawns. 30 seconds, spirit target chosen. 37 seconds, spirit spawns. 45 seconds, spirit target chosen. 52 seconds, spirit spawns.

NEW: 15 seconds, spirit spawns. 30 seconds, spirit spawns. 45 seconds, spirit spawns.

In other words, there doesn't have to be a stacking gain in spirit time, as you suggest that there would be. Instead, the spawning happens at the exact same time as the target being chosen.

And, all things considered, it might not even work the way that I suggest... but I'm willing to bet that it does. So, long story short, instant spawns = a small amount of extra DPS time.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Belloc » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:50 pm

I can confirm that, at the least, the first Raging Spirit spawns about 6 seconds earlier on US servers.
US:
[20:15:47.506] The Lich King begins to cast Remorseless Winter
[20:15:55.750] Kaideliara hits Raging Spirit 820


EU:
[20:58:54.070] The Lich King begins to cast Remorseless Winter
[20:59:08.921] Psichraimos hits Raging Spirit 616


Now add to that the fact that the spawn timers are still the same
US:
[21:02:00.450] The Lich King begins to cast Remorseless Winter
[21:02:06.419] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Korbin
[21:02:28.545] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Lumpewpew
[21:02:51.390] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Totsgerber
[21:06:27.136] The Lich King begins to cast Remorseless Winter
[21:06:34.309] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Yoni
[21:06:51.621] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Korbin
[21:07:09.644] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Grig
[21:07:28.479] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Aspherion


EU:
[21:16:22.700] The Lich King begins to cast Remorseless Winter
[21:16:29.113] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Baelley
[21:16:51.539] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Turcó
[21:17:13.961] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Malacnite
[21:21:49.723] The Lich King begins to cast Remorseless Winter
[21:21:56.066] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Malacnite
[21:22:13.312] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Hamershamie
[21:22:30.558] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Malacnite
[21:22:48.578] The Lich King casts Raging Spirit on Solsbear


Raging spirit is cast roughly 6 seconds after The Lich King begins to cast Remorseless Winter. On US servers, the spirits spawn when Raging Spirit is cast. On EU servers, the spirits spawn 6 seconds after the cast. Since both casts happen on identical timers, US servers have a 6 second advantage -- more so when you consider the implications.

So, yes, there absolutely is an advantage for US servers.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Meloree » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:37 pm

It's a double-edged sword. The early spawn can cause prox-gib problems, especially when they spawn in melee. The delayed spawn has more dps downtime.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Belloc » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:45 pm

It can cause gib problems, yes, but it shouldn't. The adds still have a spawning animation (the growth) during which they are inactive. Adds spawning in melee should be even less of an issue, as they are immediately in range of tanks. Either way, heroic guilds (the ones that could actually use the advantage) aren't going to have spirit gibs.


Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that US servers are given more time to DPS the adds, meaning that the adds have less health when carried over to subsequent phases.

I suppose I'll have to post this discrepancy in the bug reports forum when I get home.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Xequecal » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:28 pm

Belloc wrote:It can cause gib problems, yes, but it shouldn't. The adds still have a spawning animation (the growth) during which they are inactive. Adds spawning in melee should be even less of an issue, as they are immediately in range of tanks. Either way, heroic guilds (the ones that could actually use the advantage) aren't going to have spirit gibs.


Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that US servers are given more time to DPS the adds, meaning that the adds have less health when carried over to subsequent phases.

I suppose I'll have to post this discrepancy in the bug reports forum when I get home.


It is actually fairly difficult as a tank to pick up one spawning in the melee pile, good luck clicking on it in time with 15 people standing on top of it. Tab-targeting doesn't pick it up until it's actually "active" (IE, someone has died) and macroing it doesn't really work, it will just target the still-alive spirit with the same name you're already tanking.

I'm surprised EU servers still have the delayed spawn, I could have sworn that it was a bug fix to fix the exploit where people targeted with the spirit would run into remorseless winter and die to prevent it from spawning at all.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby d503 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:35 pm

Xequecal wrote:
Belloc wrote:It can cause gib problems, yes, but it shouldn't. The adds still have a spawning animation (the growth) during which they are inactive. Adds spawning in melee should be even less of an issue, as they are immediately in range of tanks. Either way, heroic guilds (the ones that could actually use the advantage) aren't going to have spirit gibs.


Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that US servers are given more time to DPS the adds, meaning that the adds have less health when carried over to subsequent phases.

I suppose I'll have to post this discrepancy in the bug reports forum when I get home.


It is actually fairly difficult as a tank to pick up one spawning in the melee pile, good luck clicking on it in time with 15 people standing on top of it. Tab-targeting doesn't pick it up until it's actually "active" (IE, someone has died) and macroing it doesn't really work, it will just target the still-alive spirit with the same name you're already tanking.

I'm surprised EU servers still have the delayed spawn, I could have sworn that it was a bug fix to fix the exploit where people targeted with the spirit would run into remorseless winter and die to prevent it from spawning at all.


Enemy Nameplate exists before it becomes active...this should be on by default the minute anyone ever specs Protection ;)
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