New tanking requirements for 5 man H instances?

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New tanking requirements for 5 man H instances?

Postby Mathus » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:05 am

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this or not. It seems now with the fast progression of gear(emblems of triumph from Heroics), that tanks are expected to be doing Heroics with 40k-50k health straight after being 80. I feel this is unfair in the whole ideal of "everyone has to start somewhere". The point being that every tank is not in the most decked out raid gear that the game has to offer at the curent time. If we all had the best of everything, we wouldn't need to run heroics. I know this sounds like a rant, but I'm about to hit the def cap for raids and I'm dreading those first heroics to get my epics for smoother transition. :?
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Re: New tanking requirements for 5 man H instances?

Postby Scotty » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:59 am

Mathus wrote:I don't know if anyone else has noticed this or not. It seems now with the fast progression of gear(emblems of triumph from Heroics), that tanks are expected to be doing Heroics with 40k-50k health straight after being 80. I feel this is unfair in the whole ideal of "everyone has to start somewhere". The point being that every tank is not in the most decked out raid gear that the game has to offer at the curent time. If we all had the best of everything, we wouldn't need to run heroics. I know this sounds like a rant, but I'm about to hit the def cap for raids and I'm dreading those first heroics to get my epics for smoother transition. :?


To my mind this is a consequence of the Dungeon Finder.

When I initially dinged 80, I did my gearing-up Heroics in-guild along with a group who were similarly recently dinged. In that we were all at about the same gear level it was fun for all of us, wipes included.

Now, however, if you use the Dungeon Finder you're likely to encounter a very large group of players who are just doing their 'daily random' for the emblems of frost, and who want to do it FAST.

A new tank is going to find that difficult because he/she isn't geared to do it fast, and may well not have the "Been there, done that" experience of having tanked the same instance over and over and over.

A fresh 80 prot warrior in our guild encountered much the same problem. He knew the instances from the DPS perspective, but needed a few runs to get up to speed in tanking them. And he had the bad luck to group with some seriously geared DPS who didn't give him the opportunity to get up to speed.

The simple solution for him (which may not be available to you) was to stop using the Dungeon Finder, except when he grouped with at least 2 other characters from the guild.

That and we ran him through pretty much every 5 man as tank, with me backing him up as really poor dps (I've got 2 prot specs *lol*) and offering advice when he asked for it.

You may not be able to do exactly the same - but if you can find a group to work with, it'll save you ending up in a pug with expectations which don't match your gear level.

Good luck!
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Re: New tanking requirements for 5 man H instances?

Postby hoho » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:22 am

Welcome to two years ago when you needed T6 for kara and MgT :)

When I leveled my warrior just after dungeon finder got introduced I kept signing as tank wearing my full questing blues. Yea, people sometimes whined about it but it didn't really matter. They can't kick you for 15mins and they can just leave if they don't like it. If they over agro and bitch about dying but that's their own fault and you shouldn't really worry about it.
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Re: New tanking requirements for 5 man H instances?

Postby Hokahey » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:38 am

Yes, everyone has noticed. Yes, it is very unfair. No, that doesn't mean it will change. Mind you, most groups are pretty friendly in my experience, but there will always be someone out there who wants to be an asshole. Occassionally, when you're really unlucky, you'll get a group full of them. Sometimes you'll get several groups like that, 1 after another.

This is the real difficulty of tanking. Its not the gameplay, but the social expectations involved, and the fact that almost every minor error and flaw is out there on display for the entire group. Joe Bob DPS can blame bad gear/latency/whatever for his shitty performance, and Betty Sue healer can claim that the damage you were taking was "unhealable", or there was lag, or a cat jumped on their keyboard, or whatever. For them, its accepted, but not as a tank. Basically, a lot of 5 man PuGs would save everyone a lot of heart ache if they just started off by saying, "I'm looking to be carried through this" or "I'm bored, and looking to grief people".

If you're intending to be a serious tank, you'll learn to play through these things, and be a better player for it. If not, then shrug it off, say "dude, its just a game", and laugh at the resulting nerdrage.
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Re: New tanking requirements for 5 man H instances?

Postby bldavis » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:54 am

when you go in, just say "Hey, Im a new 80 tank, and Im still learning these dungeons from a tank's prespective." probably 85% of the time you will have your group go "Ok, np ty for telling us!"
There will still be those assholes that DEMAND you chainpull the entire dungeon, and if you dont they will do it for you.

I have ran into a couple of those ppl, even before the LFD tool was added.

if all else fails, just keep running regulars, and run heroics with guildies
none of the fights change a whole lot reg -> heroic so if you learn them on regular, you have them down.

also chain run ToC5, R-PoS, R-FoS and R-HoR as much as your head can take without exploding. between those four you can get probably a 32k health pool unbuffed, which, combined with an explantation of saying hey im a new tank, should be enough to appease most morons, and those that dont like it, can leave and wait for another 45 -50 min (gotta love the 30 min deserter debuff)

here is a nearly complete gearset made of only reg ICC5man drops, ToC5 reg drops and crafted items. Regular Gearset enchanted and gemmed on a fairly tight budget (only epic gem being in the 245 bracers youll be keeping for a while) and getting to 535 def min for heroics. there also no emblem gear.

i hope this helps, and feel free to pick it apart, everything can be obtained without setting foot into a single heroic dungeon.
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