[10/25] Sindragosa

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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Belloc » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:55 pm

Shathus wrote:I've been using DBM for my boss mod if for no other reason in that I'm just used to their bars and such. We were doing Sindragosa 10 last night, and I noticed the timer for Blistering Cold (or whatever the vacuum and AOE damage ability is called) was way off, at least after the first cast. Do BigWigs or DXE keep better track of this?

Normally I wouldn't care too much, but apparently my hunters don't like to get out of range quick enough and at least one of them dies to it every attempt, often even on the first one. Looking for something to better track so I can call it out on time and hope they run better. Thanks

The Blistering Cold will always come immediately before or after the 2nd frost breath after air phases. Phase 3 is a bit harder to track.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Argali » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:37 pm

Shathus wrote:I've been using DBM for my boss mod if for no other reason in that I'm just used to their bars and such. We were doing Sindragosa 10 last night, and I noticed the timer for Blistering Cold (or whatever the vacuum and AOE damage ability is called) was way off, at least after the first cast. Do BigWigs or DXE keep better track of this?

Normally I wouldn't care too much, but apparently my hunters don't like to get out of range quick enough and at least one of them dies to it every attempt, often even on the first one. Looking for something to better track so I can call it out on time and hope they run better. Thanks


Ummm..... disengage?
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Belloc » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:20 pm

Also, make your hunter stand closer. The further away you are, the longer it takes for you to arrive at the center of her hitbox. In other words, you have less time to run away.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Baelik » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:09 am

After the recent hotfixes the pattern seems to be: Breath > Breath > Blistering Cold > Breath > Flight

As mentioned above the Blistering Cold is always immediately after Second Breath and being closer helps run out faster.

Even without Disengage he should be able to run out of it fairly easy. I usually recommend my healers get Enchant Boots - Tuskarr's Vitality on their boots if they are getting gibbed by latency issues. So if hes constantly getting gibbed you could ask him to do the same.

Edit: As far as I've noticed DBM is spot on, but you kinda get used to the pattern and don't watch DBM for these abilities until you get close to or enter P3. I know that after last weeks hotfix the encounter changed a bit. Maybe DBM is slightly older build? :o
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Shathus » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:30 am

Belloc wrote:Also, make your hunter stand closer. The further away you are, the longer it takes for you to arrive at the center of her hitbox. In other words, you have less time to run away.


Ah, I hadn't thought of that, makes sense. I'll definitely have them try that next time, should get used to having the ranged stay close to each other anyways for P3 I would think, right (other than whoever is the ice block)? And will suggest the boot enchant as well.

Disengage came up during the attempts, but logging back at the logs this morning, it seems like between the 2 hunters, they only used Disengage 4 times. The one attempt that Hunter A lived through the whole fight was one of the times he used it. So that should help them live more if they actually use it I would imagine. Standard procedure for this I'm guessing is
  1. get sucked in
  2. land
  3. (jump)cast disengage
  4. run the rest of the way out
  5. profit
?

Thanks for all the help, hopefully we'll at least get some cleaner attempts this coming week if not a kill.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Thels » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:46 am

I used to think 415 FrF was the cap when we got to Sindragosa on 10 man, and both me and the OT (a Warrior) aimed for that. She went down, np.

So last week we got to her in my steady 25 man pug. Discussing FrR gear with my OT, he informed me that the old 5*mob level is outdated. Was kinda shocking :P

Anyhow, I read up on http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t44675-resi ... ics_wotlk/ and since I'm one of those worst case scenario thinkers, I'm only interested in the actual milestones where you have a guaranteed minimum. Anything over that is just a waste in my eyes, since it might happen, but could just as well not happen.

Going through my gear, I came up with 4 basic setups. These are the stats, when affected by "Seal of Vengeance", "Frost Resistance Aura", "Chill of the Throne" and "Strength of Wrynn" (5%), with the avoidance applying against lvl 83 mobs:

Regular tanking set:
48845 hp
34104 armor
130 resistance (minimum 10%)
33.48% avoidance
5.18% hit
8.75% expertise
3630 ap
1023 sp

Boots, belt, JC ring, T9.245 pants for crit immunity:
47721 hp
31053 armor
370 resistance (minimum 30%)
26.83% avoidance
6.80% hit
7.25% expertise
2832 ap
783 sp

Boots, belt, both Onyxia rings (crit immune without further swapping):
47700 hp
33355 armor
357 resistance (minimum 30%)
28.13% avoidance
5.18% hit
7.25% expertise
2822 ap
780 sp

Boots, belt, chest, JC ring, Onyxia ring T9.245 pants and Onyxia trinket for crit immunity:
44655 hp
29760 armor
515 resistance (minimum 40%)
27.56% avoidance
6.80% hit
4.75% expertise
2402 ap
654 sp

The P3 Frost Breaths are the only things that ever endangered me on 10 man, so I want to get at least 340 Frost Resistance. Staying at that, the 2 Onyxia rings with Pillars seem to give more survivability, than the JC ring with the downgrade to T9.

But what about the 40% minimum? Would that be overshooting it? The 3k hp loss is worth it, if I can shave off another 14% (going from 70% to 60%) from the most dangerous attacks, but I have no idea how lethal her melee hits are on 25 man. They were laughable on 10 man.

I'm not too worried about threat. We usually raid with a lot of paladins and hunters, so threat can be solved.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby kennywu » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:07 am

My raid is having trouble beating this encounter on 10 man normal. We have Phase 1 and 2(flying) down pact, no trouble at all. Then problems start in phase 3. After many different strats we've come to this; I've assigned 2 spots for ice blocked people to go to, having a dedicated rogue on ice blocks, and splitting the raid into 2 grps to alternate dropping their stacks. Last night, the rogue could not kill ice blocks fast enough. But our real problem seems to be that we loose a healer and a few dps to the first magic pull come to my belly and freeze mechanic on phase 3. I think everyone is so worried about ice blocks, stacks, and everything else.

What strats have worked for everyone else? Is there something that our raid can do different to improve our chances? Thanks in advanced for the answers.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Thels » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:31 am

What we've been doing lately is have all the ranged and healers clutter up on one point (we use the little corner on the circle on the ground as a reference. Then the first person to gets cubed runs left. Second person runs right. Third left, etc... Before we did that, people were too slow with moving out after killing the last icecube. Now, whoever gets the icecube runs away immediately, and leaves finishing the cube off to the other DPS.

We also make pairs out of almost everyone, making people go in turns. Pretty much everyone is fine with taking every other cube, but if everyone waits for the 2nd one, then nobody's dpsing the first one.

People failing to run from mass grip is not something you can really solve as a raid leader. Having everyone stand closer might help a bit, but it's about people's own reflections. I kinda forgot if it's on a fixed timer. If it is, announcing it ahead of time can be helpful.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Hokahey » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:31 am

superworm wrote:About acclimation, I highly doubt that it's preferable to spec to frost DK to tank due to 150 frost resistance. I spec into frost to tank Sindrogosa in 10man to provide icytalons buff and it's a harder feeling for me than when I spec blood. The major CD in frost, ie Unbreakable Armor, does nothing to mitigate magic damage, and this fight is about scheduled spike damage, not steady high damage, so CD use is more important than general mitigation imo. Also blood DK's self healing can easily compensate for the more damage income from frost aura.
For those large damage in P3 that can really kill you, WotN can reduce them by 20%, much higher than what acclimation's 150 frost resistance can do. And after the large spike I can pop rune tap and blood strikes immediately to give myself a nice 50% healing, which eases the healer's life much.


Thanks for your response, but I wasn't asking for your personal opinion of which DK tank spec you like more. I was asking whether Acclimation works here or not, which your answer appears to be "yes".
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby superworm » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:06 pm

Hokahey wrote:Thanks for your response, but I wasn't asking for your personal opinion of which DK tank spec you like more. I was asking whether Acclimation works here or not, which your answer appears to be "yes".


Seriously I didn't check the log whether acclimation triggers on aura damage. If so then it should be able to keep up the whole fight.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Argali » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:35 pm

In a bout of epic RNG, I was tanking sindra, other tank moves towards for for tank switch. She casts Blistering cold, tank taunts off me.

I run away, she finishes casting Blistering Cold, and proceeds to frost beacon that tank that she has aggro.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Xfighter » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:19 pm

Argali wrote:In a bout of epic RNG, I was tanking sindra, other tank moves towards for for tank switch. She casts Blistering cold, tank taunts off me.

I run away, she finishes casting Blistering Cold, and proceeds to frost beacon that tank that she has aggro.

^Same thing was happening to us last night, 2-3 times for the night. She'd either frost beacon, or the taunt wouldn't register if cast right as she started casting blistering (yet still went on CD) *shrug*

Only thing I can think of, is waiting till after the blistering cold goes off before taunting (as shown by timers) Might result in a bit of a wonky stack-distribution, but could solve those annoyingly stupid wipes.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Eredor » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:49 am

How do you reach 540 defense with belt, boots and rings?

With belt & boots I'm already using 2 20def gems to get to 540.
Were I to equip the ring, I would loose another 60 def which means I would have to use another 3 20 def gems which guarantees I won't have a single stamina bonus.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby inthedrops » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:49 am

Xfighter wrote:
Argali wrote:In a bout of epic RNG, I was tanking sindra, other tank moves towards for for tank switch. She casts Blistering cold, tank taunts off me.

I run away, she finishes casting Blistering Cold, and proceeds to frost beacon that tank that she has aggro.

^Same thing was happening to us last night, 2-3 times for the night. She'd either frost beacon, or the taunt wouldn't register if cast right as she started casting blistering (yet still went on CD) *shrug*

Only thing I can think of, is waiting till after the blistering cold goes off before taunting (as shown by timers) Might result in a bit of a wonky stack-distribution, but could solve those annoyingly stupid wipes.


This happens to me sometimes. If I'm the tank that's supposed to be taunting. I make sure to tell the other tank that I "got it", and what I do is taunt about one second before blistering cold ends (so that taunt duration is still up when he's done casting). It's worked fine so far.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Belloc » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:01 am

Eredor wrote:How do you reach 540 defense with belt, boots and rings?

With belt & boots I'm already using 2 20def gems to get to 540.
Were I to equip the ring, I would loose another 60 def which means I would have to use another 3 20 def gems which guarantees I won't have a single stamina bonus.

3 pieces of frost resist are not at all required. If you're having issues remaining uncrittable, it's simply a matter of you having not acquired the level of gear that some others may have.

If you can remain uncrittable while using only 2 pieces, that is what I recommend.
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