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[Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

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[Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:42 am

In World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, we'll be making several changes to class talents and abilities across the board. Here, you'll get a limpse at what's in store for the rogue class, including a look the new high-level abilities and an overview of how the new Mastery system will work with the rogue's different talent specs.

New Rogue Abilities

Redirect (available at level 81): Rogues will be getting a new ability to help them deal with changing targets. Redirect will transfer any active combo points to the rogue's current target, helping to ensure combo points aren't wasted when swapping targets or when targets die. In addition, self-buff abilities like Slice and Dice will no longer require a target, so rogues can spend extra combo points on those types of abilities (more on this below). Redirect will have a 1-minute cooldown and no other costs.

Combat Readiness (level 83): Combat Readiness is a new ability that we intend rogues to trigger defensively. While this ability is active, whenever the rogue is struck by a melee or ranged attack, he or she will gain a stacking buff called Combat Insight that results in a 10% reduction in damage taken. Combat Insight will stack up to 5 times and the timer will be refreshed whenever a new stack is applied. Our goal is to make rogues better equipped to go toe-to-toe with other melee classes when Evasion or stuns are not in play. This ability lasts 6 seconds and has a 2-minute cooldown.

Smoke Bomb (level 85): The rogue drops a Smoke Bomb, creating a cloud that interferes with enemy targeting. Enemies who are outside the cloud will find themselves unable to target units inside the cloud with single-target abilities. Enemies can move inside the cloud to attack, or they can use area-of-effect (AoE) abilities at any time to attack opponents in a cloud. In PvP, this will open up new dimensions of tactical positional gameplay, as the ability offers a variety of offensive and defensive uses. In PvE, Smoke Cloud can serve to shield your group from hostile ranged attacks, while also drawing enemies closer without the need to rely on conventional line-of-sight obstructions. Smoke Cloud lasts 10 seconds and has a 3-minute cooldown.

Changes to Abilities and Mechanics

We're also planning to make changes to some of the other abilities and mechanics you're already familiar with. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we want for each spec.

In PvP, we want to reduce the rogue's dependency on binary cooldowns and "stun-locks," and give them more passive survivability in return. One major change is that we'll put Cheap Shot on the same diminishing return as other stuns. The increase to Armor and Stamina on cloth, leather, and mail gear will help with this goal as well.

In PvE, even accounting for active modifiers like Slice and Dice and Envenom, a very large portion of the rogue's damage is attributable to passive sources of damage. Yes, they are using abilities for the entire duration of a fight, but we want to reduce the percentage of rogue damage that comes from auto-attacks and poisons. More of their damage will be coming from active abilities and special attacks.

We would like to improve the rogue leveling experience. Positional attacks and DoT-ramping mechanics will be de-emphasized at low levels and then re-introduced at higher levels for group gameplay. We are also providing rogues with a new low-level ability, Recuperate, to convert combo points into a small heal-over-time (HoT).

To complement the change to combo points, non-damage abilities such as Recuperate and Slice and Dice will no longer have target requirements and can be used with any of the rogue's existing combo points, including combo points remaining on recently killed targets. This will not affect damage abilities, which will still require combo points to be present on the specific target you want to damage. To coincide with this, the UI will be updated so that rogues know how many combo points they have active.

Ambush will now work with all weapons, but will have a reduced coefficient when not using a dagger. When opening from Stealth, all rogues will be able to choose from burst damage, DoT abilities, or a stun.

As we've done recently with some of the Subtlety abilities, we want to make sure more rogue abilities aren't overly penalized by weapon choice. With a few exceptions (like Backstab), you should be able to use a dagger, axe, mace, sword, or fist weapon without being penalized for most attacks.

Deadly Throw and Fan of Knives will now use the weapon in the ranged slot. In addition, we hope to allow rogues to apply poisons to their throwing weapons.

We are very happy with Tricks of the Trade as a general mechanic and as a way to give rogues more group utility, but we don't want it to account for as much threat transfer as it does now.

New Talents and Talent Changes

In Cataclysm, the overall feel of each of the rogue's talent trees will change, as we would like each tree to have a clearly defined niche and purpose. The talent details below are meant to give you an idea of what we're going for.

Assassination will be more about daggers, poisons, and burst damage.

Combat will be all about swords, maces, fist weapons, axes, and being engaged toe-to-toe with your enemies. A Combat rogue will be able to survive longer without needing to rely on Stealth and evasion mechanics.

The Subtlety tree will primarily be based around utilizing Stealth, openers, finishers, and survivability. It'll be about daggers, too, but less so than Assassination.

In general, Subtlety rogues needs to do more damage than they do today, and the other trees need to have more tools.

Weapon-specialization talents (for all classes, not just rogues) are going away. We do not want you to have to respec when you get a different weapon. Interesting talents, such as Hack and Slash, will work with all weapons. Boring talents, such as Mace Specialization and Close Quarters Combat, will be going away.

The Assassination and Combat talent trees currently have a lot of passive bonuses. We plan to dial back the amount of Critical Strike Rating provided by these trees so that rogues still want it on their gear.

Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses

Assassination
Melee damage
Melee critical damage
Poison damage

Combat
Melee damage
Melee Haste
Harder-hitting combo-point generators

Subtlety
Melee damage
Armor Penetration
Harder-hitting finishers

The initial tier of rogue Mastery bonuses will be very similar between the trees. However, the deeper that a player goes into any tree, the more specialized and beneficial the Masteries will be to the play style for that spec. Assassination will have better poisons than the other two specs. Combat will have very steady and consistent overall damage. Subtlety will have strong finishers.

We hope you enjoyed this preview, and we're looking forward to hearing your initial thoughts and feedback on these additions and changes. Please keep in mind that this information represents a work in progress and is subject to change as development on Cataclysm continues.


Cataclysm Stat & System Changes: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 6414&sid=1

Mastery System Preview: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 871&sid=1g


I commented a long time ago in my guild's chat that rogues lack any sort of healing and I wouldn't be surprised if they got something in Cataclysm. Seems I am a predictor of the future.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Pizbit » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:06 am

Flex wrote:I commented a long time ago in my guild's chat that rogues lack any sort of healing and I wouldn't be surprised if they got something in Cataclysm. Seems I am a predictor of the future.


It had bothered me that rogues had NO self healing at all, yet meant to be in melee.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby bldavis » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:11 am

i like what i see!

at elast the part of me loving my lil horde rogue is, the pvp hunter and ret pally side of me is cringing and going ah shit, they are gonna be even harder to kill now! (although stunlocking a rogue is fun as hell!)
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:45 am

Hrmm... There's some good stuff in there, but not really what we (I) wanted to see. I was hoping for a big flashing neon sign that said "NO CHARGES FOR HEMO"
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:10 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Hrmm... There's some good stuff in there, but not really what we (I) wanted to see. I was hoping for a big flashing neon sign that said "NO CHARGES FOR HEMO"


eh. I see transferring combo points as a huge boon in small group pvp when you need to shift kill targets. And Smoke Bomb just sounds awesome. I was surprised to see Armor Pen go to Subtlety and not Combat though.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:20 am

Very interesting that they're adding a way to take unused CPs from dead mobs and apply them to live ones. That'll certainly change things up.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:29 am

I think the change I'm most excited about is that you can use the CPs on a dead target to refresh SnD or use Recuperate. Waaaaay back in the day there was a bug that let you SnD with CPs on a recently deceased mob and it made things a bit easier since you didn't have to "waste" CPs on SnD when you could be Evising or KSing. I expect to get a lot of mileage out of that, especially as Sub since I end up with dead trash before I can get up the energy for a finisher rather often.

Another thing that's interesting is the ability to Ambush with any weapon and them wanting not to penalize you for using different weapon types. I could see a damage boost for using Daggers with Sinister Strike in the future. It would make leveling Assassination pre-Mut and Sub pre-Hemo a bit less painful.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby bldavis » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:40 am

hmmm

H&S with any weapons, ambush with any weapons, ..... pvp is going to be fun!

add in combo point switching and recup.... :twisted:
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:43 am

When I was leveling my rogue I was sad that all of the big damage abilities (read Ambush) required daggers. I much prefer the Hack n Slash style of rogue-ing.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby bldavis » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:46 am

Flex wrote:When I was leveling my rogue I was sad that all of the big damage abilities (read Ambush) required daggers. I much prefer the Hack n Slash style of rogue-ing.

i leveled my gnome rogue sub using a dagger for backstab/garrote/ambush and a mace offhand for more damage, but im now leveling my horde rogue h&s method, the 2 highest damage wepons i can find, slow main fast offhand..

stuff is dying REALLY fast! (esp now that i got poisons! :twisted: )
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:58 am

My current Rogue has been leveling Sub with Daggers. Up until around level 60, I killed everything in 6 seconds or less. Now it's around 6-10 seconds. Now factor in Recup helping with any possible downtime, and free SnD where I don't use it at all atm and... :twisted:
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Chicken » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:07 pm

bldavis wrote:
Flex wrote:When I was leveling my rogue I was sad that all of the big damage abilities (read Ambush) required daggers. I much prefer the Hack n Slash style of rogue-ing.

i leveled my gnome rogue sub using a dagger for backstab/garrote/ambush and a mace offhand for more damage, but im now leveling my horde rogue h&s method, the 2 highest damage wepons i can find, slow main fast offhand..

stuff is dying REALLY fast! (esp now that i got poisons! :twisted: )
I actually had a rogue that used to have two macros that swapped around the weapon in the main and off-hand when stealthing and when using ambush just for that big opening damage. Think I also had one for gouge and backstab along the same lines.

I have no idea whether that was a good idea, but boy did it provide some nice big numbers and it actually made a twisted kind of sense with how the subtlety tree was at the time.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:03 pm

I generally feel that weapon swapping is a convoluted way around intended playstyle, so I never really got into it. With the changes incoming to Ambush, and what they did with Deadly Poison in the last patch, I would imagine Blizzard agrees.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby tlitp » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:37 am

Pizbit wrote:
Flex wrote:I commented a long time ago in my guild's chat that rogues lack any sort of healing and I wouldn't be surprised if they got something in Cataclysm. Seems I am a predictor of the future.

It had bothered me that rogues had NO self healing at all, yet meant to be in melee.

  1. CP dump
  2. energy dump
  3. hybrid CP generator (damage+selfheal)
  4. hybrid poison
  5. automated selfheals (JoL/iLotP-like)
Blizzard's proposed solution is actually the worst of the alternatives, functionally. A CP-limited ability is bound the be a pain in the arse, as long as CPs will continue to be a scarce resource (mind you, a resource that is effectively tied to combat). The fact that it's meant to be a HoT effect, instead of a direct heal, cripples its potential even further.

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:I generally feel that weapon swapping is a convoluted way around intended playstyle, so I never really got into it. With the changes incoming to Ambush, and what they did with Deadly Poison in the last patch, I would imagine Blizzard agrees.

I'd like to issue a formal complaint. Getting rid of anything&everything that may seem "convoluted" (seal/totem twisting, weapon swapping et cetera) isn't that appealing, as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: [Rogue] Cataclysm Preview

Postby Boyfriend » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:26 am

tlitp wrote:I'd like to issue a formal complaint. Getting rid of anything&everything that may seem "convoluted" (seal/totem twisting, weapon swapping et cetera) isn't that appealing, as far as I'm concerned.


I think it would be fun to have a spec have a 'weapon switching' theme where depending on current combat situation one weapon type becomes preferrable over the other.

Something like a combat rogue using daggers gets a stacking buff with every backstab they do that increases their damage done by 5% (stacks to 5) but gets removed as soon as the rogue moves, without the 25% stack swords are better than daggers otherwise daggers are and the rogue should switch weapons depending on how much movement they are expected to do.
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