Remove Advertisements

[Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

[Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Zaluthar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:37 am

At T10 levels of gear, the recommended priorities using Seal of Vengeance are:
Judgement > DS > CS > (HoW) > Consecrate > Exorcism > (Holy Wrath)

Now for AoE using Seal of Command, what would be the recommended priority?
Are there recommended priorities depending on trash group size?
User avatar
Zaluthar
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:42 am
Location: Aggramar - EU

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Boyfriend » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:47 am

It probably doesn't matter.

Let me elaborate:

The optimal SoV priority order already changes based on how much haste you have, the suggested one just was established on some BiS set, if you change 2-3 items/your ping is not always exactly 50ms/etc. the optimal priority order changes.

That would suck, thankfully the difference between the top few priority orders is practically nil, this is also why they change places due to the smallest changes.

If you want to optimize down to single digit dps differences, which is what this comes down to, it becomes very hard to make general suggestions; "do you want one target to die faster than the others?" "do you have full mana?" "are you dpsing 2 mobs? 3 mobs? 4 mobs? more?" "how many of the mobs are facing you and can parry?"

All of these things will probably have a significantly bigger effect than changing your priority queue, and more importantly your 'optimal' priority queue will change because of them, it will also change if you hit a button 0.1 sec too late or a mob moved out of your range for half a second.

As long as you use a reasonable priority queue which follows common sense there will be no measurable difference to a basically non determinable optimal priority queue.
Image
User avatar
Boyfriend
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Sweden

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Levantine » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:46 am

Isn't the T10 priority something along the lines of:

DS-DS-DS-DS-DS-DS-DS with a Judgement thrown in for mana?

Orrrrrrrr does each Command hit no longer equal another chance to proc the bonus.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Boyfriend » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:48 am

Levantine wrote:Isn't the T10 priority something along the lines of:

DS-DS-DS-DS-DS-DS-DS with a Judgement thrown in for mana?

Orrrrrrrr does each Command hit no longer equal another chance to proc the bonus.


It got fixed, command no longer procs T10 sadly :<
Image
User avatar
Boyfriend
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Sweden

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby ceela » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:54 am

Wrath if it's an undead pack and you want to lock them down until the tanks get threat on everything, then just rotation as normal. As Boyfriend says, the differences are minimal, and SoCommand/DS cleaves everything so much anyway that every move is an AE move.

Did they fix http://www.wowhead.com/?item=7717 yet, or does it still proc SoC on everything it hits? I haven't managed to get one to drop yet in my half-assed farming.
Ceela <XW> Neptulon-EU
Ceela | Emeta
User avatar
ceela
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:24 am

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Levantine » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:21 am

Boyfriend wrote:
Levantine wrote:Isn't the T10 priority something along the lines of:

DS-DS-DS-DS-DS-DS-DS with a Judgement thrown in for mana?

Orrrrrrrr does each Command hit no longer equal another chance to proc the bonus.


It got fixed, command no longer procs T10 sadly :<


Sadface much? Ret Paladins were lulz in heroics when it worked. :(
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Lore » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:03 am

Generally speaking when I'm using SoComm, it's because it's an AOE/multitarget pack, so I do something like this:

DS > Judgement > CS > Cons > HW (if applicable) > HoW > Exo

I've tried dropping Judgement lower but I go OOM too fast :(
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Baelor » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:42 am

Lore wrote:Generally speaking when I'm using SoComm, it's because it's an AOE/multitarget pack, so I do something like this:

DS > Judgement > CS > Cons > HW (if applicable) > HoW > Exo

I've tried dropping Judgement lower but I go OOM too fast :(

You put Hammer of Wrath that low?
I am the light that brings the dawn.
Something Wicked this way comes.
Formerly: Baelor of Runetotem-US (2006-2007) | Cathmor of Malfurion-US (2007-2010)
Follow me on Twitter
User avatar
Baelor
Moderator
 
Posts: 2677
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:42 am
Location: New York

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby guillex » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:14 am

Baelor wrote:
Lore wrote:Generally speaking when I'm using SoComm, it's because it's an AOE/multitarget pack, so I do something like this:

DS > Judgement > CS > Cons > HW (if applicable) > HoW > Exo

I've tried dropping Judgement lower but I go OOM too fast :(

You put Hammer of Wrath that low?


In an AOE/Multitarget? Yeah. I do too.

Sometimes I don't even hit it on a single target. I'm too busy going J > CS > DS > (proc)DS > (proc) DS > CS > J > DS > CS > DS etc. etc. etc.
Póg mo thóin
Image
User avatar
guillex
Moderator
 
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Baelor » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:20 am

guillex wrote:
Baelor wrote:
Lore wrote:Generally speaking when I'm using SoComm, it's because it's an AOE/multitarget pack, so I do something like this:

DS > Judgement > CS > Cons > HW (if applicable) > HoW > Exo

I've tried dropping Judgement lower but I go OOM too fast :(

You put Hammer of Wrath that low?


In an AOE/Multitarget? Yeah. I do too.

Sometimes I don't even hit it on a single target. I'm too busy going J > CS > DS > (proc)DS > (proc) DS > CS > J > DS > CS > DS etc. etc. etc.

I reed gud. Duurrrrr, multi-target...

Ignore me, I read Lore's post too quickly and reacted to something that I misread.
I am the light that brings the dawn.
Something Wicked this way comes.
Formerly: Baelor of Runetotem-US (2006-2007) | Cathmor of Malfurion-US (2007-2010)
Follow me on Twitter
User avatar
Baelor
Moderator
 
Posts: 2677
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:42 am
Location: New York

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby guillex » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:01 pm

Has anyone heard from Baelor? I thought he was going to give a hand in this thread.

Ah well!
Póg mo thóin
Image
User avatar
guillex
Moderator
 
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Zaluthar » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:12 am

It sounds like the recommended priority list is determined by multi-target spells and by mana (DS and Cons drain mana fast).
I tried to increase priority on Cons, but went oom very fast.

So something like this would be preferred.
DS > Judgement > CS > Cons > HW (if applicable) > HoW > Exo
User avatar
Zaluthar
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:42 am
Location: Aggramar - EU

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Zaluthar » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:37 am

Joanadark wrote:Prot maybe, but if a ret paladin just keeps mindlessly following CLC-style rotation managers then they are a BAD PLAYER.

Ret actually has completely different rotations for:
-1 target that lasts a short time (an add to burn, like jeraxxus portal or blazing skeleton)
-1 target that lasts a long time (a boss)
-2 targets
-4 targets
-more than 4 targets that will take 20+ seconds to die
-more than 4 targets that will take <20 seconds to die


http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=2&t=28464&rb_v=viewtopic&start=75#p561366
It looks like there are players with answers...
User avatar
Zaluthar
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:42 am
Location: Aggramar - EU

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Boyfriend » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:25 am

The answer is, as I've originally indicated; there is no answer.

There is no optimal priority queue for all cases of AE dps, because it depends on alot of factors.

Will the mobs remain in your consecration?
What skills do you have on cooldown as you are starting on the mobs?
How many mobs are there?
What exact gear do you have?

Rawr 2.3.13 can actually generate optimized rotations for fight scenarios using your gear.
It can also tells you the difference between various rotations.

I can say some general things that usually are true, but really are quite common sense:

Generally around ~5 mobs IF you get full consecration uptime (mobs don't move much) Consecration should be prioritized high (highest priority), otherwise it should be prioritized low (below Judgement/CS/DS).

Divine Storm is very very good with seal of command and for 2-4 targets will be your #1 priority, for 1 target DS or CS as #1 is a wash with a tiny difference that will vary depending on gear. DS needs to be a higher priority than CS, or you will lose many DS due to clashes; Judgement matters less as it won't clash as often, but should also be below DS; Judgement > CS or CS > Judgement makes very little difference (0.5% dps). What your priority after the first 3 is really depends on your situation; you should only consecrate if you get full uptime from it tho.

The only boss I care about my multi target dps is LK-25Hc where I use DS>CS>Jud, I can't HW anyway due to stun on it. I put a consecration into the raid shortly before they go active and usually don't consecrate anymore after since I don't get a chance to, unless I'm very unlucky with procs.
Image
User avatar
Boyfriend
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Sweden

Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Kelaan » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:40 am

Joanadark wrote:Prot maybe, but if a ret paladin just keeps mindlessly following CLC-style rotation managers then they are a BAD PLAYER.

Ret actually has completely different rotations for:
-1 target that lasts a short time (an add to burn, like jeraxxus portal or blazing skeleton)
-1 target that lasts a long time (a boss)
-2 targets
-4 targets
-more than 4 targets that will take 20+ seconds to die
-more than 4 targets that will take <20 seconds to die


Since many of us want to learn to be better at Ret, would you (or someone else) care to elaborate on what proper tactics are in these situations? I assume that "tactics" reflects both seal choice and skill use.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Next

Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests
?php } else { ?