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Okay WTF is Prince's problem?

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Okay WTF is Prince's problem?

Postby lusisia » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:45 pm

Three tries tonight. Everyone was on the ball. I'm at 17k raid buffed. Got a Defense Flask, Spicey Crawdads, Uncrit/Uncrush. All the basics. 3 times somewhere in P2, I think right at the end of it, I went from 17k to nothing.Just BAM!

Makes NO sense whatsoever. I was disengaged for the entire fight during P2.

I'm looking back at Assessment data for the fight and if I look at Damage taken, I didn't take any crits or crushes. there were 3 crushes the entire fight and those were other people from the axes flying around.

Here's a link to the grim reaper report from the fight. One thing coming from one of the pallies in my guild who was along (and undergeared..it's an alt) said that the 1200 heal was a FoL he threw out before giving me a full HL. I don't think you can get by just spamming FoL in that fight personally but we knew she was undergeared. She didn't have the mana to keep it going with full HL but the other healers should have been able to keep big heals up.

http://dev.lusis.org/tmp/grim-prince-try3.png
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Postby Invisusira » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:30 am

How many healers did you have?

If you just have 2 - the undergeared alt and one other - then that's why. It looks like you just steadily went down in life and then died. If I'm reading that report right, you went from 64% to 0% in 5 seconds. That's the healers' fault. 5 seconds should see you going from 64% to 100% and staying there.

Now, even if you do have 3 healers, keep in mind that with the chaos of infernals and windfuries, it is still quit possible for you to get instagib'd like that. If your healers aren't being careful and keeping you topped off - which, once again, judging by that report they were not - you can very easily get smashed by one of his 3 - for - 1 combo hits.

Make sure your healers keep you topped off before they start dancing around the infernals.
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Postby Lumenactio » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:38 am

5 seconds with no heals will do that. It's a spam fight. If you had 3 healers, there's no reason for you to get nothing but 1 heal through that duration.
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Postby lusisia » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:40 am

Invisusira wrote:How many healers did you have?

If you just have 2 - the undergeared alt and one other - then that's why. It looks like you just steadily went down in life and then died. If I'm reading that report right, you went from 64% to 0% in 5 seconds. That's the healers' fault. 5 seconds should see you going from 64% to 100% and staying there.

Now, even if you do have 3 healers, keep in mind that with the chaos of infernals and windfuries, it is still quit possible for you to get instagib'd like that. If your healers aren't being careful and keeping you topped off - which, once again, judging by that report they were not - you can very easily get smashed by one of his 3 - for - 1 combo hits.

Make sure your healers keep you topped off before they start dancing around the infernals.


Well at that point, there wasn't an infernal problem. In talking to the undergeared healer (we had 3 total - priest, droo and the pally), she said she was casting a full HL right when I went down. Her opinion was that she was surprised in that I wasn't taking any damage at all and then I was dead. Hence the digging I did.

I personally feel like the healers were the issue at this point. Two of them had never seen the fight. I think the healing was pretty reactive. When I'm healing on fights where I'm not tanking, I'm CONSTANTLY canceling heals by nudging myself but I've always got a heal being cast.

In fairness to the healers though, being my first time on prince, I was mainly concerned about keeping HS up with Exorcism and consecrate coming behind that. I was totally disengaged during P2 which is why I think they got lulled into a sense of false security. FFS, at one point on one try, I almost ran out of mana during P2 because SA wasn't giving me anything back. I had to stop myself from casting exorcism because I was afraid I wouldn't have enough for HS. I guess that's a good thing in a sense.

The upshot is that I got enough badges to FINALLY get my libram and I also got the Eternium Greathelm from BBW. So far it's allowed me to swap in my newly upgraded Violet Signet and regem a bit. I'm feeling a little low on dodge sitting at 19.6ish. I think I'm actually going to go for the socket bonus on the greathelm just to get the dodge back up. I can also drop the CFS and switch to the arena mace which has me happy as a clam.
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Postby Invisusira » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:51 am

Yep, sounds like just an inexperience thing. Don't get bummed out about it, the fight gets easier each time you do it. Your healers need to be much less reactive and more proactive.

lusisia wrote:Her opinion was that she was surprised in that I wasn't taking any damage at all and then I was dead. Hence the digging I did.

She's 120% dead wrong. You were at 64% and went to 0% in five seconds. Five seconds is an ETERNITY. You shouldn't even go from 100% to 0 in five seconds, much less 64% to 0.
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Postby ulushnar » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:46 am

Right. 64% of 17k is 10.8k health. when the Prince does his Thrash in phase 2 he can do about 12k damage in the space of a couple of seconds, let alone five.

It is imperative that your healers spam heal you above 12k at all points in phase 2. Reactive healing is no use there, your healers should be hitting you with their big heals whilst your DPS burns him from 60-30 asap. You should be the only one needing healing in that phase.
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Postby Melathys » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:53 am

this is why I love grimreaper. Healers try to blame you for taking too much dmg... post grim to raid, and they can look at their lack of healing for phase 2.

Hell, what you have there is enough time to cast 2 Holy Lights, there's no reason that not one healer found it in themselves to cure you in that amount of time, especially during phase 2.
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Postby Andox » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:23 am

Where can I d/l Grimreaper? I´ve tried wowmodsearch.dom adn I didn´t find that addon, it seems very nice to have!
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Postby Worldie » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:44 am

It's part of X-Perl Unit Frames
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Postby lusisia » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:02 am

Melathys wrote:this is why I love grimreaper. Healers try to blame you for taking too much dmg... post grim to raid, and they can look at their lack of healing for phase 2.

Hell, what you have there is enough time to cast 2 Holy Lights, there's no reason that not one healer found it in themselves to cure you in that amount of time, especially during phase 2.


Well all and all, we weren't trying to lay any blame. It WAS a learning fight and it was a PuG with a more advanced guild. Just a chance for us to understand the fights before we brought our own guild in there.

I also didn't use any ohshits that I could have when I saw myself getting low - Pocket Watch, LoH.

It was still fun though. I was at least 10k ahead in threat of the 6 overgeared people that the 4 of us went with during the fight and we didn't have a single shitty infernal drop.
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"It turns out that a large number of people are whiny motherfuckers ..." - PsiVen
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Postby lusisia » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:03 am

Andox wrote:Where can I d/l Grimreaper? I´ve tried wowmodsearch.dom adn I didn´t find that addon, it seems very nice to have!


You'll have to get the full xperl set and disable all but grimreaper and the neccesary modules for it. It's really nice and that output can report to any channel. the only thing it doesn't report to the channel is the timestamps which are the biggest thing I was curious about (hence the screencap)
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"It turns out that a large number of people are whiny motherfuckers ..." - PsiVen
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Postby Zhalseran » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:13 pm

Grim Reaper says it all. Prince is one fight where you absolutely cannot afford to be a reactionary healer. Even at that, 100% health is always the healers' goal, not 64%
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Postby Invisusira » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:18 pm

Oh, PS, (I just posted this in another thread and it made me remember this one) - don't disengage during stage 2, it's only making your job harder. If you wipe due to him parrying, you would have wiped anyway.
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Postby Vanifae » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:23 pm

Invisusira wrote:Oh, PS, (I just posted this in another thread and it made me remember this one) - don't disengage during stage 2, it's only making your job harder. If you wipe due to him parrying, you would have wiped anyway.

I second this.
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Postby Korath » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:43 pm

Ive been hit for 22K in 1.2seconds on prince without a crush or crit... it happens, just gota hope the spam healing is higher than the dmg :)
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