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[25H] The Lich King

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[25H] The Lich King

Postby inthedrops » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:40 am

We're finally looking this boss in the face (did one pull last night for fun before ending the raid). I know there are others that are working on him who visit these boards. I was hoping you could start sharing your experiences with others. Typically I pick up a LOT of good ideas on these forums that I don't get elsewhere. Pally specific techniques, etc.

We'll start working on him next week so I won't have anything to contribute until then.

This is about all I've got to go on at the moment + some videos:

Shadow Traps in phase one which act much like a shadow fissure and send you flying 1,000 yards off the platform when they go off (in an extremely comical manner).

Val'kyr HP triples, however they drop their target at 50% health and fly above the raid and begin casting Siphon Life on the raid until they are killed.

In the third phase the entire raid will be pulled into Frostmourne instead of one person. Wicked Spirits will fall from above which must be dodged/killed. Any deaths will still result in Harvested Soul being applied to the Lich King and it can stack.

Phase four is unchanged.


Cheers!
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Meloree » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:02 am

It's somewhat unlikely that a lot of people are going to share tactics this early. I know my guild certainly has a policy against discussing unkilled bosses.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby inthedrops » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:37 am

Figured as much. Thought maybe since there was ONE kill people would be sharing :)
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:51 pm

Meloree wrote:It's somewhat unlikely that a lot of people are going to share tactics this early. I know my guild certainly has a policy against discussing unkilled bosses.


Any real secrets that were left were eliminated when Adept decided to release their 10-man video for epeen without even thinking about why none of the many guilds to kill it before them had not released vids.

Pretty much all there is to know about the fight is public domain now, particularly with the release of Paragon's raid comp which gave the remaining stuff away.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:46 pm

HEROIC LICH KING
(How to beat the game all kinds of properly, and grow three inches too!)

Raid Comp Requirements:
-2 Tanks
Ideally 1 of them being a Paladin or a DK because they have the best survivability against Soul Reaper, along with large numbers of cooldowns. At least one of the tanks needs to have access to plenty of stuns, which means paladin or warrior, because they need to be able to stun the large undead adds in p1.)

-5 to 6 healers
1 MUST be a disc priest. Ideal comp would be 2 paladins on tank healing, with a resto shaman assisting, 1 disc priest who bubbles the raid for infest NOTE THEY ARE NOT A TANK HEALER and remaining healer slot(s) should be filled with holy priests for burst raid healing to counter infest.
If you absolutely MUST bring resto druids, they need to tank heal in place of a holy paladin, not raid heal. The reason for this is that they simply can't cover enough players with rolled HoTs to make them able to cover the raid as an Infest healer, while a priest can just cycle through PoH/CoHing different groups. Druid's are great for aura fights, but not for Infest.

-17 to 18 dps
Your entire DPS comp needs to be built around killing Valkyrie. This means short ramp-up, high cleave (Note, cleave not AOE), and lots of on-demand burst and damage cooldowns. Ret Paladins, DKs, Combat rogues, and other melee are particularly excellent in this regard, which is why you will note the paragon comp includes several more melee DPS than is normally taken in an average raid comp.
Ensure you have every buff and debuff you can get, and ideally that they take the form of an applicator that can be efficiently applied to the valks very quickly. For example, if your source of 13% magic is Curse of Elements, that is much less efficient than an unholy DK providing it because it will take the warlock 3 gcds to apply 13% magic to all three valks, as opposed to one gcd for the dk that also acts to deal damage at the same time. Think about how your valks are going to get debuffed and plan it out. If you don't have a prot warrior glyphed for sunder and devastate, it is probably best that major armor reduction is applied by each rogue being assigned to do a low-combo point Expose Armor on their valk, to give another example.
When everyone was talking about how H LK was an "impossible DPS check that is balanced around the 30% buff", its killing the valks that they were referring to. Stack your DPS team for this check, above all others.

Also note, you will need at least 1 hunter with a good focus-tranq shot macro.


Additional Considerations

-You will need at least 5 immunities in the raid.
Ideally, that entails 5 paladins, because bubble is both the longest duration, and allows mobility while immune. You should have 1 prot and 2 holy paladins in the raid anyway, and since ret paladins are wonderful for killing valks, paragon just brought 2 ret paladins as the final 2. This is for the last phase, and each player with an immunity will be responsible for soaking spirits for the raid in one phase each. If they fuck up even a little bit, you wipe pretty much instantly. You will have to use the same soaking strat as is used in a melee-comp on 10-man, as opposed to the cheese 10-man strat where you just stack ranged dps and brute force the encounter, so running melee setup 10-man groups will be good practice. Note paragon did a melee comp 10-man kill, which is the harder strat and caused people to speculate why they did it. It was practice for 25-man.
If you don't have access to 5 paladins, then you have a couple of options. You can have a shadow priest dispersion, or a rogue cloak of shadows/feint. Both these options require a pretty big set of balls, because both methods make a difficult job even more difficult and the player can easily still die despite their defenses.

-You will need several raid-wide defensive cooldowns to rotate for Infest.
Specifically, this means you need enough Aura Masteries and Divine Sacs in the raid to have at least one for every infest. If you don't, people will die to infest. It simply hits that hard on heroic. Another advantage of bringing 5 paladins in your raid comp is that you have 5 shadow aura masteries and 3 dsacs. That's pretty amazingly helpful for getting past infest with basically only a holy priest, a disc priest, and a resto shaman able to heal it.

-Between one of your tanks (the paladin or DK one ideally) and your healers, you should have a cooldown map for every Soul Reaper.
Hopefully your healers and tanks are really, really good at cooldown maps by this point in the game, seeing as they've had to be used on prretty much every single pre-nerf semi-hard fight in wrath. This one isn't quite as bad as cooldowning every single Freezing Slash on heroic Anub, but there's considerably more stuff going on at the same time on this one than there was on Anub p3. Anub is good practice though.


As kind of a side-bar, a recurring theme of this whole post is going to be "Paladins are pretty much amazing for absolutely everything to do with this fight, and are the true master race that should be brought in copious numbers if you have any intention of beating the fight." This is both unfortunate and true, but utterly predictable even before we set foot in ICC because of the toolset of each of the three specs having no equivalent by any other class other than different variations of paladin. Paladins representing the only mobile immunity, the only source of a raid-wide defensive cooldown, and being the only tank that can completely eliminate the danger of random freak-bad-luck RNG gibs that good play cannot control is frankly really stupid from a class balance design standpoint. End soapbox.
Last edited by Joanadark on Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:24 pm

Phase One
Things that are important going on:

-Shadow Traps
Shadow Traps are targeted at a random person in the raid. The LK will turn and physically target that person and do a ~1 second cast. The spell has a graphic that flies through the air from the LK to the target. A swirly black whirlwind effect will then appear on the ground where the target was standing at the time of casting. After a couple seconds, it will materialize as a Shadow Trap that looks just like a traditional void zone. Don't worry too much about what it does, if anyone touches it, you wipe. The trap lasts 1 minute before despawning.
Because the spell is targeted, your UPDATED BOSS MODS will/should be placing a mark over the person being targeted and making them do a /say emote "Shadow Trap on Me!". Be careful that you are watching for the actual graphic on the ground and not relying on the /say because sometimes it bugs out and makes the tank say it because the cast happens so fast.

Best way to handle these is controlling their placement. Obviously your melee will be grouped already, but stack all your ranged together as well in their own clump. Tank Healers can form their own clump or be split up so they are not all moving at once. You will end up with a melee clump, a ranged dps clump, a couple individual tank healers standing on their own, and the offtank off to the side. When trap appears under a clump, the whole clump shifts in a set direction and you just place traps in a predetermined placement for your particular clump. Ensure you have a Shadow Trap Map visual aid that you make in MS paint for extra cool points. Make sure that no matter how the RNG falls on which clump gets targeted by every freaking trap, LOS and range are maintained by the DPS to the boss, and the healers to the tanks, and the offtank to the main tank.

Overall, don't let traps intimidate you. They are honestly an easy part of the encounter and the raid positioning you do to counter them will make your life easier for managing Necrotic Plague.


-Necrotic Plague Management
In order to beat enrage, all your DPS will be DPSing the LK the entire phase, and nothing but the LK the entire phase, and you will be using lust shortly after the pull. This means that the additional adds spawned during p1 that are going to be tanked by your offtank (which will be the one with lots of stuns available to them) will need to be killed completely via the use of plague.
The way you accomplish the is that the first plague to go out on a raid member after the first large add spawns and is picked up will need to be run out towards where the offtank is tanking it and cleansed off so that it jumps to the add. This cannot be fucked up. Whoever gets that plague MUST make it within the 5 seconds before plague ticks. If they mess up and you lose that particular plague, it's a wipe. If you are having trouble with that player making it, consider GSing them to buy them an extra 5 seconds, or placing one of the tank healers in between the raid and the offtank as an intermediary for that transition. It's better than wiping.
From that point on, all plagues will simply be run away from the raid, and cleansed off so they dissipate harmlessly. Doing badly at cleansing or running out will result in the LK gaining lots of stacks and start threatening to kill your main tank. If you are struggling with this aspect, practice it on normal mode using your positioning for heroic as the mechanic is the same. If you want to take it one step further, you can practice shadow traps on normal by having the raid leader make a /say "Shadow Trap on me!" macro and running their character to stand on the clump they want to move periodically.

EVERYTHING YOU DO IN p1 CAN BE PRACTICED ON NORMAL MODE! (positioning, raid clumping, plague management and cleansing, tanking, etc.)

-Off Tank's Job
The offtank's job is the more difficult one in p1, and they are the person most likely to die. Once the first plague after the first large add spawns is successfully transferred to the add, the tank is responsible for making sure that that plague is kept alive and gains in strength. They should taunt all the drudge ghouls that spawn onto them as well, so that the plague has something to jump to other than him when it kills off large adds in between the next one spawning. Additionally, each time large adds do enrage, they must be stunned by the tank so he doesn't get insta-gibbed while the hunter's focus-tranq shot is in mid-air.


-Infest
Every infest needs to be cooldowned with at least either an Aura Mastery shadow or a Divine Sac/Divine Guardian. As much of the raid as possible must have a PW:S from the disc priest to lessen the damage from that infest. The shields should stay up at full strength for full duration since there is no ambient damage in this phase. Melee should be careful not to rip aggro on a drudge ghoul and have it eat through their shield.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:51 pm

FIRST TRANSITION
The same as normal, but more damage and a higher DPS check to kill the raging spirits. Tanks need to be ON THE BALL with snap pick-ups. Raid members need to be aware of who is getting targeted to be copied as a newly spawning raging spirit and move away from it so that they don't YOU DIE from proximity initial aggro and lag. Cleave needs to be hard. Each time a new Raging Spirit spawns and is picked up, all DPS should switch to the new one and let cleave/DoTs run their course on the previous one being DPSed. EFFICIENT damage is the key here. This part should be pretty easy compared to the rest of the fight. If mistakes get made here, they will be deaths from the aoe because of badly timed transitioning and slow movement, or from basic shit like pulling threat on a big angry hostile that punches you in the dick.

PHASE 2
Important things that are going on here:

-Valks
There are 3 of them. They have a ton of health. They need to be brought to 50% for them to drop their target, upon which time they will fly overhead and start channeling a siphon life on the raid for a low but steady amount of damage. If you are not amazing at killing valks on normal mode then don't bother, because this represents the hardest DPS check in the game right now. Stuns and slows must be min/maxed on them, and must be perfect, every time.
In order to meet the DPS check, you will need absolutely maximized stun time on all of them, and they need to remain in cleave range of each other. Ideally, this means every wave needs an assigned Hammer of Justice for each valk. This is YET ANOTHER reason why you bring 5 paladins. The prot paladin will be speced for reduced CD HoJ and can get every wave of valks himself, and the two holy paladins and two ret paladins will each pair up and alternate getting one Valk every other wave. The reason you use HoJ is that it is the longest stun in the game that can be instantly applied when all the valks are all stacked together when they first land and are in cleave range. Kidney Shot, the other stun of the same length, requires too long a ramp up time to reach full duration, and should instead be used as the secondary stun on each valk following the HoJ expiring. Note that the paragon comp, in addition to having the 5 paladins, has 3 rogues. This means that each valk wave looked like this:
Valk 1 (HoJ from prot pally -> Kidney Shot from Rogue 1)
Valk 2 (Hoj from holy pally 1 or 2 -> Kidney Shot from Rogue 2)
Valk 3 (HoJ from ret pally 1 or 2 -> Kidney Shot from Rogue 3)
The final stun after the kidney shots all expire would be a simple holy wrath from one of the ret paladins.

Good luck, burn cooldowns, be efficient with your dps, and burn HARD.

-Defile/Valks combos
Defiles and Valks happening very close to each other happens on hard mode at EXACTLY the same timing as it does on normal, specifically the 2nd and 4th valks sets. If your aid group is not PERFECT FUCKING PROS at handling valks and defile positioning, then go practice on normal mode, because it is exactly the same timing as hard mode. Everyone needs to know the timings by heart and be 100% perfect at them. If some jackass is slow or your raid is spread out too much and valks come and pick up somebody who is not on or right next to the absolute center of the circle, you can wave them goodbye because even with min/maxed stuns and crazy DPS you aren't going to be able to save them. Practice on normal until you can do defile/valk combos in your sleep with two feet tied behind your head.

-Infest
It's still going on. There is a soft enrage to this phase due to the fact that eventually there will be enough valks flying above you siphoning life drains that they will eat through the PW:Ss on the raid to the point where Infest becomes unhealable. DPS really need to min/max their damage on the boss in addition to killing valks efficiently in order to get out of the phase as fast as possible. And yes, this means you still need to continue rotating raid cooldowns in the form of Aura Masteries and Divine Sac/Divine Guardians for every Infest, with an emphasis on the later ones.
Last edited by Joanadark on Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:03 pm

SECOND TRANSITION
Same shit as normal, with more health and damage. Pop heroism for the second time here. Maximize your damage. Don't be dumb.

PHASE 3
You will alternate between being upstairs and DPSing the LK the same as on normal mode, with maybe a couple of your ranged DPS killing vile spirits to make your life easier when you all get sent downstairs. You have to beat the enrage with the time you have left at this point, so DPS don't suck. Healers get a bit of a break at the upstairs sections because there's no more Infest, just tank damage. Keep your tanks up through Soul Reaper. Don't forget that you can have your offtank ranged taunt the LK to make him run away from the MT for a couple seconds before the MT taunts him back. Time this with when the Soul Reaper on the MT is right about to go off to prevent SOULREAPERMELEEMELEE instagibs. A boss can't attack while he's running back and forth across the platform. Basic tanking fundamentals shit. Ensure you have that cooldown map for every Soul Reaper application hit worked out.
Defile still happens in this phase, so you should spread out as much as possible to minimize DPS movement. The disc priest should still bubble people to prevent Defiles increasing in size, since it only increases if you TAKE damage from defile, not if it is absorbed.

When the raid gets harvested, you will all get sent downstairs. Make sure as many people as possible have practice on 10-man so it isn't completely new to them. While downstairs, the raid will need to be collapsed together in a tight clump against one of the outside walls. There will be big glowing thingies that explode that you need to not get hit by. They are called Spirit Bombs. Put a mark over one person for everyone else to move with if that's helpful. Ranged DPS should kill vile spirits in the air. Each time you are downstairs, you will use one paladin with bubble to be in front of the raid group and soak all the vile spirits that the ranged DPS aren't able to kill before they come down. If this player fucks up, you wipe.
Raid AOE damage will be very heavy, so hybrids that can heal worth shit like boomkins or shadow priests hymning should consider helping out.

Repeat upstairs->downstairs->upstairs until the boss hits 10% and you win, you wipe to bad execution, you run out of paladins with immunities to soak for you, or the boss enrages.

glhfdd.
Last edited by Joanadark on Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:05 pm

Paragon raid comp, for easy reference:

Tanks (2)
Protection Paladin
Feral Bear Druid

Healers (5)
Holy Paladin x2
Restoration Shaman
Holy Priest
Discipline Priest

Melee DPS (11)
Frost DK x2
Unholy DK
Feral Cat Druid x2
Retribution Paladin x2
Mutilate Rogue
Combat Rogue x2
Fury Warrior

Ranged DPS (7)
Balance Druid
Marksmanship Hunter x2
Shadow Priest
Demonology Warlock
Affliction Warlock x2
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby superworm » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:23 am

Nice information. Though we are still far away from H LK in 25 man, it could help us a lot when we come to H LK in 10 man.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby rocket » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:28 am

truly an epic description
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby hoho » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:22 am

And people called Sunwell hard :o
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Good news, everyone! We can now heal stupidity!
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Rojhaz » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 am

Joanadark wrote:
-You will need several raid-wide defensive cooldowns to rotate for Infest.
Specifically, this means you need enough Aura Masteries and Divine Sacs in the raid to have at least one for every infest. If you don't, people will die to infest. It simply hits that hard on heroic. Another advantage of bringing 5 paladins in your raid comp is that you have 5 shadow aura masteries and 3 dsacs. That's pretty amazingly helpful for getting past infest with basically only a holy priest, a disc priest, and a resto shaman able to heal it.

This is absolutely destroying our attempts. So frustrating to get near raid time and find out we don't have enough raid cooldowns online and/or 'proper' healers.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Xequecal » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:53 am

Was Paladin dominance really that predictable? As far as I can remember, they had all those things going into Sunwell and they were the worst class in the game at that point.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby inthedrops » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:26 am

Xequecal wrote:Was Paladin dominance really that predictable? As far as I can remember, they had all those things going into Sunwell and they were the worst class in the game at that point.


I don't think we had DG or DS in Sunwell. But yeah, we were not the best tanks back then that's for sure!
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