Testing Threat in 3.3.3

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Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Arianne » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:53 pm

Hi all,

I'm somewhat concerned that they nerfed something about our threat without any patch notes. Why? Because I'm in the position that warriors were in 3.3 where I can really only hold one or two mobs while my warrior and DK co-tanks get the rest (and the DK can pull threat off me by using IT on the one that I'm attacking).

Since right now it's just paranoia, I was wondering what would be the best way of testing this hypothesis?

Thanks.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:11 pm

We weren't nerfed. Warriors and DK's got buffed. IT has a 700% threat modifier in Frost presence, and Revenge crits for like 24k damage and cleaves.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Arianne » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:51 pm

Yes, I know they got buffed. I'd like to test that we didn't also get nerfed at the same time.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Arianne wrote:Yes, I know they got buffed. I'd like to test that we didn't also get nerfed at the same time.

Well, there's no reason to believe we did, but you're welcome to go test it yourself if you want to. Since the threat values are retrievable with the WoW API, Omen can give you accurate threat values.

Just go to the dummy and hit it with one attack, and write down the damage done and the threat that Omen recorded. Do that for every attack and seal proc you have. If they all come up with appropriate threat modifiers, then our threat modifiers were not affected.

You can also check the expected damage against the formulas in the Matlab thread, though that would take a decent bit of work.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Synesis » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:52 pm

Haven't seen anything changed to our TPS numbers. My numbers for TPS is still the exact same pre and post 3.3.3, only difference is my warrior and DK buddies are tanking 1 or 2 more adds than usual which can be explained with their buff, instead of me just facerolling threat all over trash with Seal of Cleave.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Awyndel » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:57 pm

Yeah with seal of command, holy wrath and hotr you should still be giving other tanks a real hard time on trash tbh.

In the first room you can still do 10K dps in normal tank gear just by aoeing them. I don't see any other tank class matching that tbh. If we get nerfed for multitarget we prolly deserve it.

What's ridiculous is the single target exploits warriors and dk's are using now. Luckily the warrior build is not really viable, and the dk rotation lowers their dps. Still, dk's having a "make threat a complete non-issue" button that only lowers their dps is not really balanced is it now. I think blizzard is just once again applying cheap bandage fixes while putting all their money on the next expansion.

If they really knew what they where doing they would change a core design from time to time instead of cheap fixes. They could have fixed our base health ages ago, would save some time with having to patch the % every few months. And them talking about our aoe threat being overpowered while they prolly don't even know Jotj procs socom is just pathetic.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby sfrog » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:33 am

I'm assuming we're talking about Xellos here - or Park (if Park's tanking these days and not smacking people in the face with his 2hander). Both of them are sorta beastly and very, very good at tanking.

The only time I've noticed a TPS drop since Patch was when I upgraded a few pieces and found myself sitting at 3% hit. By playing around with the various pieces of gear I have and sometimes eating Hit food, the minor drop was fixed. Given that Xellos' DK has 7% hit to your 4% the issue may lay in that. So perhaps it's just a matter of having rather low hit and expertise compared to them?

PS. Thelawyn says Hi to Xellos and that he still wants his damn shield.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Meyrinn » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:00 pm

Warrior and DK single target threat is shockingly bursty now. The first few boss pulls were me pulling with AS followed by HotR, JoL, ShoR then seeing the boss change to my offtank if it was a DK or Warrior. My 25 man OT is a DK, and my 10 man is a Warr. After threat was established, I held just fine. But i didn't have any issues with tank swaps and having to stop my rotation when I wasn't tanking. DK and Warriors easily match our sustained threat now, and their burst threat is phenominal.

Trash its the DPS that are causing me headaches. The new Unholy sub Frost DK spec is just stupid. They no longer take threat reduction talents from Blood and they push over 20k DPS on trash packs. Maybe they'll learn after they die a few more times. The other thing causing headaches is Balance Druids with Starfall. As soon as I pull I see those stars falling before the trash is even in melee range, and half the trash just runs right by me.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Awyndel » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:05 pm

Meyrinn wrote:and half the trash just runs right by me.


That would teach them to start aoe when the mobs arent in position and properly picked up yet.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Steve » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:26 am

Paladin single target threat simply isn't competitive with DKs and warriors anymore. They got rather large buffs in the latest patch.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Meyrinn » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:36 am

Awyndel wrote:
Meyrinn wrote:and half the trash just runs right by me.


That would teach them to start aoe when the mobs arent in position and properly picked up yet.


Do bad DPS ever learn? But, it was a quite humorous night. We had more deaths on trash than bosses.

Steve wrote:Paladin single target threat simply isn't competitive with DKs and warriors anymore. They got rather large buffs in the latest patch.


I think thats going a bit far. They are competitive now, its just their initial burst threat is very high. Its a bit annoying at the start because their bursts can just go right over your threat because you don't have that much of a buffer.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Kelaan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:49 am

Meyrinn wrote:Trash its the DPS that are causing me headaches... Maybe they'll learn after they die a few more times.

They probably won't, but you will certainly enjoy it.
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Re: Testing Threat in 3.3.3

Postby Dendrah » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:17 am

Holy Wrath and Rightious defense spamming saves our boomkins ass alot of times. I don't care as long as trash dies faster and we get more boss time.

I must say I have a protection trash specc with seal of Command, reckoning and glyphs of holy wrath, consecration and Hammer. Finding myself in the top of the DPS charts for the first series of trash is not rare.Been even topping it in some bad 25-man pug the other day.
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