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Tidewalker - Graves.

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:16 am

Dragonzbane wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:I just don't like the idea of twiddling fingers out in the middle of nowhere and having some dps split their attention between two different targets and doing a half-ass job on both.


Sometimes I swear people just don't pay attention.


Sometimes I swear people don't know when they're not being responded to. I'm commenting specifically about the giant table breaking screenshot Warrender posted.

Dragonzbane wrote:With everyone but myself and the MT salv'd and my target warlock buffed with light, fel armor, and amp magic the is never an issue with agro.


We have. A badly timed earthsthield/pom/tclap, and all of a sudden the north group of Murlocks is on the MT eating his shield block charges and he gets crushed and things go downhill from there. The lifetapping warlock has gotten graved and out of LOS/dead from low hp. Shadowpriests get aggro from VE healing their entire party. Shit happens during this fight. The trick is picking your poison.

Most of the above can be mitigated by people understanding the fight and knowing when to do what. My job is figuring out what to do when other people fuck up. Because they will.

I'd initially disregarded your strat for our raid because of the above. You seem quite passionate and worked up about your strat.

Dragonzbane wrote:Getting agro on the murlocks while standing at the graves completely eliminates the possiblity that I get graved. Not 3 times in a row, not twice, not ever.

Backing the Murlocks from the graves to Tidewalker eliminates any possiblity that the AoE will not hit Tidewalker. It also helps remove any random downtime as once the Murlocks are down you head back to the graves and get ready for the next batch.


Thank you for clarifying that, and I'll very likely try this and see if it works for our raid. Hopefully it does.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:56 am

Dragonzbane wrote:If you wipe on this fight once, then you've wiped too many times.


Indeed, though it is possible to stay in grave range and consistently one-shot Morogrim. For guilds that haven't already learned the fight, I'd certainly suggest going with your strategy however.
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Postby Gracerath » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:07 pm

I prefer being up by the actual raid myself for the same reason stated above that a badly timed earthshield proc, PoM, whatever gives the MT murloc aggro. I'm then closer to run in, drop a consecrate on the MT to snag up the adds. Also, you are losing the dps of that warlock during the time you are waiting down in the grave area and you are losing dps time by dragging them up instead of them already being there and as we've come to discover, squeaking out every bit of dps is king for encounters in TBC. The faster you kill shit, even 30 seconds faster, is superior. If your raid is fine with that, by all means. There are many different ways to handle the fight and an adaptive raid group can handle anything that pops up. If I've said it once, I've said it 47 times, use what works for you and your raid group.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:34 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
We have. A badly timed earthsthield/pom/tclap, and all of a sudden the north group of Murlocks is on the MT eating his shield block charges and he gets crushed and things go downhill from there. The lifetapping warlock has gotten graved and out of LOS/dead from low hp. Shadowpriests get aggro from VE healing their entire party. Shit happens during this fight. The trick is picking your poison.



These things that you are describing should not happen.

First:
There should be no Earth Shield, PoM or some say Lifebloom on the MT at any point in time when there is an Earthquake/Grave incoming.
Your healers should be able to heal the MT without them.

As a matter of fact, PoM and Earth Shield should be on you instead.


Second:
If the Lifetap lock is getting graved, he/she is standing in the wrong spot.
If nothing else he should be standing near you and out of grave range. There should never been the possiblity of an LoS issue.
See where the lock is in the picture?


Third:
Your MT should not be TCing between the time the Graves hit until after the murlocks are past him.

If he complains, remind him that Paladins and Druids have tanked the encounter without Thunderclap. :wink:


Fourth:
VE should in no way be able to get agro if you, your lock and the MT and his healers are doing things correctly.
Last edited by Dragonzbane on Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:47 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Sometimes I swear people don't know when they're not being responded to. I'm commenting specifically about the giant table breaking screenshot Warrender posted.


You should have been responding to me, though. :wink:


fuzzygeek wrote:I'd initially disregarded your strat for our raid because of the above. You seem quite passionate and worked up about your strat.


I am passionate about this strat because I was in your position.
We spent two to three weeks messing around with different strats, partially my fault and partially my RLs faults. Finally, we decided to go with the strat the Warrender described but since the RLs were worried about DPS I added the "walking them back part". It's been cake ever since.

The worst part about it is that we start working on Kael this week and if we started using the strat originally we'd probably have him down by now or be close to it.

I just don't want you guys to go through what I went through.


fuzzygeek wrote:Thank you for clarifying that, and I'll very likely try this and see if it works for our raid. Hopefully it does.


Good luck.

I hope it works for you guys also.
The biggest thing is discipline, if everyone does there job the way they are supposed to, barring freak accidents like DCs, you should kill him the first night.


Note: It may take a try or two to make sure everyone has the positioning down. I think it took us 3 or 4.
Last edited by Dragonzbane on Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:00 am

Gracerath wrote:I prefer being up by the actual raid myself for the same reason stated above that a badly timed earthshield proc, PoM, whatever gives the MT murloc aggro. I'm then closer to run in, drop a consecrate on the MT to snag up the adds.


/sigh
That's fine.

But Earthshield and PoM should not be on the MT, see my reply to Fuzzy.


Gracerath wrote: Also, you are losing the dps of that warlock during the time you are waiting down in the grave area and you are losing dps time by dragging them up instead of them already being there and as we've come to discover, squeaking out every bit of dps is king for encounters in TBC.


Except for this fight, you are wrong.

There is no Enrage, there is no timer, there's no reason to worry about "30 seconds faster".

Oh yeah, and all that time you spent above running in to "drop a consecrate on the MT to snag up the adds" because someone pulled agro over you (which doesn't happen with the other strat) just equaled out the time I spend backing up.

So you didn't actually save time and you're much more sloppy.


Gracerath wrote: The faster you kill shit, even 30 seconds faster, is superior. If your raid is fine with that, by all means. There are many different ways to handle the fight and an adaptive raid group can handle anything that pops up. If I've said it once, I've said it 47 times, use what works for you and your raid group.


As I said above, you didn't actually save time if someone pulls intial agro over you. We'll put that aside though and move on.


What's better?

To kill shit 30 sec faster?
Or
To wipe and lose 15 minutes?

I think you can answer that for yourself.

If I've said it once I've said it 48 times, if the hard way, isn't working then why not go with a better way?

Feel free to keep banging your head against the wall if you want.
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Postby Crusherus » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:20 am

Thanks for all the good info here. My guild is going to make some serious tries against Tidewalker this weekend. After reading this post, I am actualy pretty confident that we can down him on the first day of attempts.
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Postby Gracerath » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:14 am

Yes Dragonzbane. You are right and we are all wrong. God forbid people use different strats, let us all conform to YOUR way. :roll: Keep the dickery out of these forums. If you don't agree with something, fine. Don't be an asshat about it.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:28 pm

Well, several different strats work, obviously. We killed Tidewalker the first time I looked at him; killed him again the second time we looked at him. Will kill him again next week when we look at him.

At this point it's about figuring out how to get through the fight faster.
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Postby Crusherus » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:42 am

Yep, this strat worked like a charm. Thanks a bunch. Tidewalker down! Woot! Took us about 5 tries before we finally got organized.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:03 am

Gracerath wrote:Yes Dragonzbane. You are right and we are all wrong.


Not everyone is wrong.
Most of the people here provided helpful and useful information.

The topic of the OP:
fuzzygeek wrote:Would you mind linking the videos that deal with removing randomness from the watery grave?


Unfortunately, no one was able to post a video.


The strat in both your posts basically it came down to:
Gracerath wrote:We take the RNG head on and pray.


You posted Offtopic (and therefore not useful) info because it was not what the OP was looking for.


In your second post you copped an attitude and even swore.

I pointed point by point how what you were proposing in your first and second post wasn't what either fuzzygeek or Crusherus was looking for and you got an attitude with me and flamed me because of it.
:shock: :? :(


Gracerath wrote:God forbid people use different strats, let us all conform to YOUR way. :roll:


The strats they were using were either not as smooth as they wanted (fuzzygeek) or not sucessful (Crusherus).

And least for Crusherus the strat laid out by Warrender, myself and several others in this thread and a couple of other threads had the desired result. It wasn't "my" way, it was the way many Paladins here use.



Gratz to Crusherus and "The Placeholder Pirates" for the kill and good luck on your future encounters in SSC.


Gracerath wrote:Keep the dickery out of these forums. If you don't agree with something, fine. Don't be an asshat about it.


Look in the mirror.
Name calling and swearing is not necessery here.


Note to Dorvan/Lore/Aergis:
I'm done with this thread.
Do what you want but I can't sit idle while someone who can't even post "on-topic" tries to make me look like the "bad guy".
Last edited by Dragonzbane on Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:14 am

You're both being rather silly (and you're trying to paint him as the bad guy too)....just kick back and relax, it's only a game 8)
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:36 am

Dorvan your beard looks like a rat you killed with Avenger's Shield and pasted to your face.
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:00 pm

That's the default Male Human Paladin graphic for that sig site. I hate it, but I haven't gotten around to adding my own just yet.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:19 pm

Stop making me the bad guy!
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