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Hand of Salvation Mechanics

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Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Cheroz » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:52 am

Alright need a little info from all the Big Heads out there. I was looking for a replacement for my Glyph of Veneance seeings how I am pushing the exp cap without it now. I saw the Glyph of Salvation saying that if you cast the Hand on yourself it also reduces damage in by 20%. Now, looking at Hand of Salvation it says if its cast on your party or raidmember reduces threat by 2% over 10secs or something very close to that..the key being cast on party. Now this may not be terribly useful on 25's, but I pretty much only run tens. I usually am also pretty high in threat after a min or two into the fight. Now question, how do you cast it on your party? My line of thinking is this, call for the ret I run with to cast his on his party and mine on my party giving me an extra cooldown. I could also pretty much just cast it on my party if the other tank and other top threat guys are in my party and still not worry about anyone pulling the boss off me.
Now my thinking can be way off, I honestly have used HoSalv sparingly since 3.0 went live. Would this work?
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Lionnis » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:31 am

I'm not really sure what you're asking but I am certain you're confused on how the glyph works.

When you cast Hand of Salvation on yourself, it also reduces damage taken by 20%.

This only applies to YOU casting HoSalv on yourself.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Akairoslol » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:39 am

The glyph is essentially a “third” cooldown should you choose to use it, a self use cooldown. As you know, it reduces damage taken for 20% for the duration of the buff, however, the damage reduction only applies if you are the recipient of your own HoSalv spell.
So to answer your question, no, you cannot use this glyph to put a 20% redux on a party/raid member, neither can your ret paladin.

I for one would continue to use the Seal of vengeance glyph, as expertise is something of a rarity in Icecrown Citadel. X_X
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Cheroz » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:52 am

Nah guys I wasn't talking about reducing the party damage by 20%. I was asking about how Hand of Salvation works....how do you cast it on a party vice just a single member. If I cast it on myself will it also cover the entire party (just the Hand of Salvation)...I honestly have only ever single target used it and have no clue how it covers a party. I know how the glyph works, I am asking how the hand works (I never really noticed the party part mentioned on the spell). If I cast it on myself (and the glyph gives just me 20% less damage) does the Less threat part also cover the rest of the party? The ret would cast his just to reduce the threat on his party. If its party wide, thus reducing the threat of the entire 10 man raid and giving me a 20% reduction while the Hand is active over 10Secs.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:55 am

HoSalv is single target only. If you cast it on yourself, you reduce your threat by 20? percent, and with the glyph reduce damage taken by 20% for the duration. If you cast it one someone else, you reduce their threat by 20? percent and the glyph does nothing.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby jere » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:57 am

it doesn't work on the "party", just the person you cast it on. You might have read "party member" or "someone in your party", but the buff only affects one target, glyphed or not.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Cheroz » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:08 am

Ah I see how the wording fits then. When cast on a party or raid member...meaning one person in your party or one person in your raid. Must have been dosing at lunch when looking at glyphs. I was like how in the heck do you cast that on a party, as I only ever used it single target.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Awyndel » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:10 am

vengeance is still the best threat glyph above 26, you might wanna drop the taunt glyph instead.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby jathitimus » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:47 pm

Hand of Salvation reduces TOTAL threat of target by 20% over 10 seconds.
Glyphed it will provide 20% damage reduction WHILE the buff is active, if cast on self.

If you leave it on for the full duration, no one should be higher than ~80% on threat or the boss should be tauntable.

If you cancel the buff you also cut the damge reduction but if you only need it for a single hit you can keep some threat by canceling the buff. 5 seconds of HoSalv will reduce threat by 10%ish.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby d503 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:55 pm

jathitimus wrote:Hand of Salvation reduces TOTAL threat of target by 20% over 10 seconds.
Glyphed it will provide 20% damage reduction WHILE the buff is active, if cast on self.

If you leave it on for the full duration, no one should be higher than ~80% on threat or the boss should be tauntable.

If you cancel the buff you also cut the damge reduction but if you only need it for a single hit you can keep some threat by canceling the buff. 5 seconds of HoSalv will reduce threat by 10%ish.


I've used HoSalv Glyphed on tank swap fights with no problem. Simply macro it to pop Avenging Wrath at the same time, and /s that you're using it. Your co-tank should know that you're going to be at reduced threat levels, but really, the usage of Wings kinda levels you out.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Minarva » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:31 am

This may be a fairly minor picking point, but as far as I am aware HoSalv reduces the current threat by 2% a second for 10 seconds, which actually equates to somewhere in the region of 81.7% Total threat (0.98^10)(or a 18.3% threat reduction). It may make the difference to someone who is banking on reducing it by a larger figure /shrug.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Chicken » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:38 am

Minarva wrote:This may be a fairly minor picking point, but as far as I am aware HoSalv reduces the current threat by 2% a second for 10 seconds, which actually equates to somewhere in the region of 81.7% Total threat (0.98^10)(or a 18.3% threat reduction). It may make the difference to someone who is banking on reducing it by a larger figure /shrug.
Not quite actually, the figure someone will end up with depends on how quickly they generate threat themselves as well, since in most cases they'll continue attacking, so typically the amount of threat they have at the end will be higher than 81.7% of their threat at the time of using HoSalv on them. Exactly how much higher depends on both their threat at the time of casting and how much threat they generate however.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby jere » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:00 am

It will be something like:

(0.98^10)Tb + (0.98^10)T1 + (0.98^9)T2 + (0.98^8)T3 + ... + (0.98^1)T10

Where:
Tb = Threat when HoSalv is activated
T1 = Threat generated between Tb and Tb+2s
T2 = Threat generated between T1 and T1+2s
T3 = Threat generated between T2 and T2+2s
...
T10 = Threat generated between T9 and T9+2s

EDIT: As a side note, IF you had constant TPS over the entire period (which you will NOT), that simplifies to:

0.817Tb + 0.896Tg, where Tg is the threat generated over the HoS active time and Tb is the threat when HoS is activated.

However, that is purely academic.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby Awyndel » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:59 am

In simple terms, make a cancelaura macro for when you're out of trouble :P . Coz you're gonna lose a lot of threat.

On the other hand, you can build quite a lead on some fights. And when tank swaps are in danger you can always just have somebody else salv the other guy.
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Re: Hand of Salvation Mechanics

Postby jere » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:08 pm

I use the unglyphed HoSalv on myself during Festergut when the other tank takes over. It typically lets me go full out dps as the 2nd tank, even with 9 stacks of the debuff. As soon as Fester is taunted off of me, I put HoSalv on myself and go to town.
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