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[Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Hokahey » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:41 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Builds without Epidemic are showing higher threat numbers now, which is why it's out. What I need to know is how best to work with it. I guess with the threat buff refreshing early is the solution.


Diseases, Oblit, BSx2, Oblit, reapply diseases, Oblit, Oblit, BSx2, reapply diseases, Oblit. FS when GCD is free, and RP is above 60. That seems to be what I'm doing now, without Epidemic, and I'm not seeing diseases fall off, or have more than ~2 seconds remaining, when I reapply. Adjusts somewhat when dealing with stuns (Ymiron), which I just end up starting over from the beginning after the stun.

However, if the choice is letting them fall off entirely, or refreshing *very* early, its probably better to go with very early, at least in terms of threat, because FF on the target boosts that Icy Touch by 30% damage, if I remember correctly (Glacial Rot + Tundra Stalker).
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby d503 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:25 am

Hokahey wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:Builds without Epidemic are showing higher threat numbers now, which is why it's out. What I need to know is how best to work with it. I guess with the threat buff refreshing early is the solution.


Diseases, Oblit, BSx2, Oblit, reapply diseases, Oblit, Oblit, BSx2, reapply diseases, Oblit. FS when GCD is free, and RP is above 60. That seems to be what I'm doing now, without Epidemic, and I'm not seeing diseases fall off, or have more than ~2 seconds remaining, when I reapply. Adjusts somewhat when dealing with stuns (Ymiron), which I just end up starting over from the beginning after the stun.

However, if the choice is letting them fall off entirely, or refreshing *very* early, its probably better to go with very early, at least in terms of threat, because FF on the target boosts that Icy Touch by 30% damage, if I remember correctly (Glacial Rot + Tundra Stalker).


This is basically what I posted on Pwnwear the other day. I've really been enjoying this rotation. Better uptime of Blood Plague (which I was really bad about before) means harder OB and BS (12% more dmg on both!) In heroics, no one can touch me on single targets.

One thing you do mention, that I should do, is start the second half with an OB. I was doing:

IT-PS-OB-BS-BS
IT-PS-OB-OB

Whereas I think

IT-PS-OB-BS-BS
OB-IT-PS-OB

will be a bit more optimized. Jury's still out there...I may stick with the first variant, since it's a little nicer when repetition is concerned.

As far as builds are concerned, I was running 12/54/5, with 3 pts in Black Ice and none in Chill of the Grave. I think I'm gonna respec to 13/53/5 as mentioned on this thread previously, finish out SoB and get CotG...RP is pretty sparse in this build, especially when using two tanking weapons, and the significant amount of avoidance that contributes.

I'm having alot of fun on my DK after these changes, so kudos to Blizzard. Sadly, I think it's just a band-aid until they revamp the entire tanking philosophy of the class when Cata comes out. I have a feeling that DKs are going to finally have 1 tree dedicated to tanking, since balancing the 3 trees has ended up being more difficult than expected...just my conspiracy theory ;)
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Fenris » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:56 am

Just managed to try it out for the first time (as i wrote down before,using 10/56/5),9k tps sustained on the second boss in forge of soul with only selfbuffs sounds fine

Just to couple the unrefined spec with an unrefined rotation i went on with IT->PS->OB->BSx2->FS dump->OBx2->ITx2 and still it works....
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Hokahey » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:05 pm

The "rotation" I outlined is a little weird, because it does require paying attention to rune cooldowns, though it *should* result in higher DPS while tanking. The much more rigid one outlined by you, Tippo, *should* result in lower DPS, but probably has higher TPS, and its easier to keep track of.

In honesty, you could probably squeeze in both Obliterates before refreshing diseases (particularly if you followed IT/PS with Oblit *then* BSx2, as opposed to BSx2 then Oblit, at the very start of the rotation) but I think it'd be very tight.

Also, whoever was concerned about this, if you really want to pull from 30 yds, you still have Death Grip, Dark Command, Strangulate, and/or Deathcoil available (assuming you have the RP for it). No reason to take the range extending talent, since relatively few mobs aggro at 20 or more yds, and those that do are usually raid bosses.
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Folstar » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:55 pm

Copy of my post from that thread that has been hijacked by warrior talk:

Updated:Unbreakable Abomination

Now DKs can spec into IIT & Abom (in your face Enhancement Shamans!) while picking up most of frost's survival (lose the 6 seconds on IBF) and the 3% STAM, Mark of Blood, and rune tap in blood- yes please!

Rotation:
IT-PS-DS-BS-BS (MD and TotT will carry you through this crap tps)
DS-IT-IT-IT-IT (a.k.a. the money, money, money, money [as said by snoop dogg] cycle)
-or something, does it even matter anymore?

AoE:
might be a problem...
nevermind, just slap on tier10 2pieces + DnD Glyph and you'll be fine
Last edited by Folstar on Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby d503 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:07 pm

What's the TPS improvement over the proposed specs above?

What kind of affect will this have on tank DPS?
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Folstar » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:51 pm

EDIT: babbling

Random Wisdom-
"He who questions training only trains himself at asking questions."
Last edited by Folstar on Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby semp » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:16 am

Icy Talons: The personal haste benefit provided by this talent is no longer exclusive with other sources of melee haste. This will allow death knights to always swing 4/8/12/16/20% faster when Frost Fever is applied. Windfury Totem and the party/raid component of Improved Icy Talons still do not stack

Right now the haste buff from icy talons IS stacking with windfury.
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:23 am

They changed it so that the Dk will still get a personal benefit from it in conjunction with Windfury Totem.
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Levantine » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:36 am

Aye, Death Knights currently have the option of spending 6 talent points to receive 45% personal haste and provide the raid with the 20% one.
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Folstar » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:41 am

The VotGoG

-Vot3W + GoG = fun to say
-Note that the link ends in "God"
-So easy a DK can do it

Single Target:
IT PS DS BS BS <dump>
DS IT IT IT IT <dump>
IT IT "whatever" (seriously, IT spam is like cheating)

AoE:
DnD "whatever" (seriously, GoDnD + tier10 is like cheating)

-You could move points into Annihilation (from the Runic talents- which can be moved around anyway you like really) and use Glyph of OB instead of DS if you want OB in the rotation instead of puny 10% heal DS; DPS v. Self Heal = either wins
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby firstamendme » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:39 am

I recently hit 80 on my frost tank and went DW. I tried out using ITT in my build last night and my tps in heroics definetly saw an improvement. I have a couple questions about dk tanking, though, and didn't think it needed a new thread.

For blood tanking, I've read that armor pen is good. How do you get it? Tank gear doesn't have armor pen. How much do you need? Does frost benefit from it as well?

For DW Frost tanking: I've read that 20-30 expertise is the number to shoot for, but expertise is seldom on gear. I've been using pots/food to get me to 25, but that's expensive. Will I notice a huge threat drop if I stop using it?

Thanks for the help, I'm loving dw tanking on my dk now!

Can't access armory right now, but name is Rigormortits on the server Spirestone(US).
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Splug » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:25 am

amh wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:Necrosis can now proc from Rune Strike


Recent bug? I can't remember Necrosis not proccing on a Rune Strike.

Edit: As of January 4th 2010 October 27th, 2009 (at least that's when I posted this shot):
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There was a bug about 2-3 months ago that caused Rune Strike to no longer trigger necrosis, blood caked blade, or killing machine. The bug was introduced when Bryntoll was nerfed to no longer trigger off so many additional effects; it's suspected that was the cause of the bug. The 3.3.3 patch notes indicated this is now resolved.

-Splug
Active raid character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... an&n=Spyte
255 characters is not enough to fit my alts' armories in.
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Taragor » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:07 am

Wondering if I could get some feedback on my very noobish DK tank I am using (it used to be my daughters character for dpsing fun. Anyways, I know I should have a slow main hand weapon, but sadly i dont. I have very early gear just to get into heroics and start doing tanking. I am doing OK so far, and using a spec from EJ. Here I am seeing alot of people using IIT. So anyways, any feedback is greatly appreciated. Again gear isnt great as I continue to build badges...If only i could take the 280 frost I have from my main =/

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... Sparklezxx

Thanks in advance. Also another question about rotations, when i read on here you all use the word "dump" at some point iin rotation, could someone explain what that means (potty jokes aside =p )

Thanks again!
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Re: [Frost-DK-Tank] Does 3.3.3 change the tanking build at all?

Postby Vorianloken » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:18 pm

getting rid of the runic power = "dump"

- Replace crit/stam gem in helm with def/stam
- Get the conquest tank neck
- Replace the 20def gem in shoulders with def/stam
- A decent tank cloak drops in one of the icc5man's I believe (i219)
- Replace the 20 def gem in chest with def/stam
- ToC crafted tank bracers possible?
- Tier 9 Gloves
- Replace the 20 str gem in belt with expertise/stam or agi/stam or dodge/stam And get the conquest tank belt
- Tier 9 Legs
- Ulduar crafted tank boots possible?
- ToC5 heroic tank ring and triumph badge ring
- Get the Triumph trinket for physical-damage heavy fights.
- Libram is fine.
- Get 2 slow dps weapons - double nighttime from FoS heroic or Black Icicle from HoR heroic

- Glyph of Howling Blast is pwnage in heroics. Replace the Disease glyph is my suggestion.
- Glyph of Frost Strike is an absolute must since you save up on more runic power for more Frost Strikes or Rune Strikes.
- Rime > Merciless Combat for all those free HB's.
- Should definitely pick up Blood of the North too.
- Endless Winter doesn't really make much of a difference. I used to have it 2/2 then dropped it for better talents elsewhere.

EDIT: my DK's frost spec is a little non-standard but I enjoy it. Generate a crap ton of RP and I usually have to keep my threat under control because all those RS/FS combos are a big boost to my threat on tank-rotation fights or fights like Marrowgar. Even against better geared tanks.
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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