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single button tanking?

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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Baelik » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:32 am

Thing is that once you go past a certain stage of tanking (where you know what abilities to use and how and when and why) then you focus on other things. After I started leading a small group to Ulduar, OS+drakes and Malygos back in June I've pretty much lead all my raids.

Using just my thumb to click 9 and 6 macro buttons on my mouse allows me to focus more on the leading bit. I don't even have to think about tanking, I'm mostly focusing on the encounter whats going wrong, what has to be improved.

Personally I'm a keyboard lover who has a key for every ability, but when you dont need that much control over your tanking, macros will always help you to switch your tanking to autopilot and take charge of other things in the encounter.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Kelaan » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:37 am

If you only use a macro, you often won't have the Right Thing Ready when you need it (e.g., to frontload threat on that one add, but your next macro cast is holy shield). You need to have (in addition to the macros) keybinds for all the abilities so that you can BREAK the pattern sometimes (even at the cost of overal TPS) in order to secure threat on an add. If you're doing that ... why not just use those all the time rather than the macros? As others have said, it's just muscle memory.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:36 am

Kelaan wrote:why not just use those all the time rather than the macros? As others have said, it's just muscle memory.


Because it's still easier and leaves mental bandwidth available to do other things. Those that just tank may not find it necessary. Those that raid lead often do.

Using just a macro or just 5 hotkeys is sub-optimal and really just boils down to personal preference.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Kelaan » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:09 am

Mmm, good point about raid leading and other attention-intensive things.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Mirydon » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:02 am

I used a tanking macro for a while:

/castsequence Hammer of the Righteous, Holy Shield, Shield of Righteousness, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Judgement of Justice, Shield of Righteousness, Holy Shield, Hammer of the Righteous, Consecration, Shield of Righteousness, Exorcism

Used it twice a week, Patchwerk 10 and Patchwerk 25. Now it's just gathering dust...
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Boyfriend » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:06 am

Mirydon wrote:I used a tanking macro for a while:

/castsequence Hammer of the Righteous, Holy Shield, Shield of Righteousness, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Judgement of Justice, Shield of Righteousness, Holy Shield, Hammer of the Righteous, Consecration, Shield of Righteousness, Exorcism

Used it twice a week, Patchwerk 10 and Patchwerk 25. Now it's just gathering dust...


You should probably take Exorcism out of there now that it has casttime.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Mirydon » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:13 am

Boyfriend wrote:You should probably take Exorcism out of there now that it has casttime.


Just goes to show how long I haven't used it :D
Off-topic, I sometimes see (random hc) tanks still use Exo in their rotation (ie, not as an opener). I watch Omen a lot more closely on my hunter when I see that happening...
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Kuma » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:51 am

I would never want a macro to dictate what ability I was going to use next, regardless of teh 969 rotation. Yes, I use the rotation, but not 100% of the time. On a pull, I'll give the hard-hitting DPS full access to open fire the second I start combat. I typically open (Boss fight, for example) with:

Avenging Wrath
Exorcism (casting)
Hand of Reckoning (a split second before Exorcism finishes casting, you get both hits in)
Avenger's Shield
(close the distance)
Judgement of Wisdom
Hammer of the Righteous (because it now does MORE damage that ShoR with 2 piece T10)
Shield of Righteousness

Now that I'm at roughly 100k threat (or quickly approaching it) and the DPS is just opening up, I can start the 969 rotation since you can always move into the rotation regardless of where your cooldowns are.

I would also add that there are times where I need to start conserving mana and need to start skipping on casting concecration. Wouldn't want a macro to force me oom when I need that mana for better/cheaper threat abilities. Point is, be smart and learn which abilities are best for you to use rather than turning WoW into Final Fantasy 12 and letting it play itself.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Dravan » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:03 am

Firstly, the whole point in using keybinds is so your attention is on what is going on, thus saying you use this macro for raid leading is baseless, other than you only need to hit 1 or 2 button instead of 5 (man now thats a challenge). And yet if you use both a macro and bind them individually as well you now have MORE keybinds to focus on, thus again I see no gain.

Surely when you are tanking you don't just stick to this sequence and think it is the be all and end all? Sure, if your MTing a boss that doesn't require any thinking just a mindless rotation spam I guess I can see the usefulness, but then by having 1 button to mash your going to glaze over in 30 seconds and be completely unprepared for any sudden reactions.

If you are doing anything other than MTing a boss, you can't guarentee that your cast macro is going to have what you want, for instance I use judgement to pick stuff up sometimes on Lady DW p2, with your macro you could end up popping HS and dropping a consec before you get what you want (3 seconds of a fanatic having fun with your healers).

This is going back to the macro hunter days where you mashed the same button for the entire fight and topped the meters. That game isn't made to be played that way and by doing it you are just going to force blizzard to change it.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby cds4850 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:50 am

FWIW, after reading over this thread and the added benefits of 6sec and 9sec macros, I made the switch. Having my rotation bound to two mouse buttons has made my raid calls and deus vox monitoring much easier.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:20 am

Dravan wrote:Firstly, the whole point in using keybinds is so your attention is on what is going on, thus saying you use this macro for raid leading is baseless, other than you only need to hit 1 or 2 button instead of 5 (man now thats a challenge). And yet if you use both a macro and bind them individually as well you now have MORE keybinds to focus on, thus again I see no gain.


This doesn't make any sense. At first you say 1-2 vs 5 -- "man now that's a challenge" -- isn't a big deal, but 4 vs 6 is somehow bad? Either a couple additional keys is bad or it's not. Either way whichever method you use will become comfortable via muscle memory, or won't suit your playstyle.

And I base my statement on my own experience of raid leading on all four classes of tanks, so your "baseless" claim is ... baseless.

Dravan wrote:Surely when you are tanking you don't just stick to this sequence and think it is the be all and end all? Sure, if your MTing a boss that doesn't require any thinking just a mindless rotation spam I guess I can see the usefulness, but then by having 1 button to mash your going to glaze over in 30 seconds and be completely unprepared for any sudden reactions.


I don't see anyone advocating using a single-button all the time. I see several people advocating its use in addition to normal keybinds. It's up to the player to be intelligent enough to know when to use what. If you're the kind of player that glazes over after 30 seconds, you probably aren't the kind of player that can be trusted with such incredible power.

I don't think beginner tanks should use a one-key macro. I see no problem with better living through technology, and have yet to hear a coherent argument against it. This one is less coherent than most, though.

Dravan wrote:If you are doing anything other than MTing a boss, you can't guarentee that your cast macro is going to have what you want, for instance I use judgement to pick stuff up sometimes on Lady DW p2, with your macro you could end up popping HS and dropping a consec before you get what you want (3 seconds of a fanatic having fun with your healers).


This is just a red herring. Again, the intelligent thing to do is use a macro in addition to normal keybinds so you can intelligently use your skills, and pre-prepare to use skills as necessary, which you'll likely be more able to do since you'll have more attention to spend on monitoring timers.

Dravan wrote:This is going back to the macro hunter days where you mashed the same button for the entire fight and topped the meters. That game isn't made to be played that way and by doing it you are just going to force blizzard to change it.


I don't think your hunter analogy holds any water at all, as the hunter macro was pretty much The One Way to do top dps. Any tank with more than two brain cells to rub together is going to be deviating from the macro as necessary.

I see nothing wrong with blizzard changing up our class to be more interesting and less boring. I know I have a lot more fun tanking on my warrior, but I'm a much more effective raid leader when tanking on my paladins and bear, specifically because I can use a macro and watch the raid, instead of monitoring procs.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Iselian » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:22 am

Just contributing my $0.02,
(Disclaimer: My raid is more on the casual end of the tanks who post here. I've yet to see an endwing boss die in 25, normal.)

As a raid assist, I find myself calling many situational occurrences while still having to push threat. Festergut, Rotface as examples, along with the streams of adds on Dreamwalker. Princes I call plenty, but I'm not pushed to keep my threat going so much there.

I have the 5 spells bound separately and over the course of the expansion my muscle memory for 969 has made it an autopilot for my left hand, to the point where I can move, slip in a mouse-over cleanse and focus on the raid while keeping my rotation (removal of select spells for cleanse exempting, of course). Many times I've picked up things our other raid assists (rogue, enh shaman) have not. I've found rotational macros against my favor most of the time, however if it's what works for another person and they kill a boss and get phat perpz, I won't argue against it.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Lionnis » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:58 am

In reply to the thread title "single button tanking" I have messed around with something interesting lately but have reverted back to my old ways of having 5 buttons. I messed around with AHK ( Auto Hot Key ) for about a month, i found it pretty useful in certain situations but lacking in quite a few others. One good thing was what was mentioned before, I could pay attention to awareness raid calls etc. while holding down one single button to go through my rotation ( Without using a macro ). I could modify the rotation for the particular fight by simply moving the abilities around on the action bar, since AHK would spam 1 through 5. The downside is versatility, and being able to effective pick certain abilities when i would want them on certain situational fights, this is actually so important to me that i went back to pressing the 5 button rotation manually. However I am considering setting it up to cycle through the 2 button macro system for 969 for fights that are boring and we just have to sit still and raid calls.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby kysu » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:01 am

For me single button never, 2 Button on fights like Sinder BQ & parts of LK & when It's my turn on Fester, other then that it the standard 5 button poke.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby æ » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:52 pm

kanst wrote:Here is the way i think of it, you get stunned for 3 seconds, the stun fades what ability do you hit? The macro doesnt do it right, it requires you to see whats going on and decide. Thats why I dont use a macro


Thats an extremely bad reason why you wouldent use this. Use your head man. If you wanted to fix something like that you would have the macro reset=3 and have Holy Shield as the first spell. Not rocket surgery!
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