Remove Advertisements

The Endgame Perspective (@Meloree, Wrathy, et all)

Looking for Paladin? Looking for guild? Post here.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, honorshammer

The Endgame Perspective (@Meloree, Wrathy, et all)

Postby cds4850 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:10 am

I have recently dissolved my WotLK guild/raid team out of frustrations surrounding continued AFK posts, lackluster recruitment, and stalled progression (9/12 ICC25 and 3/12 ICC10hm.) So I find myself now along with my two fellow officers searching out a new raid home (prot paladin, val'anyr resto shaman, resto druid) through which I can see out the end of wrath hard mode content and progress into Cataclysm.

So here's the challenge, and the basis of my questions and this post: what's the appeal to an endgame team towards picking up this kind of combination of players? We obviously want to transfer servers to a team that is accomplished and has the structure in place to provide us a good home through wrath, cataclysm, and beyond. To this end, we are 100% raid attendees, former officers of previously successful teams (US top 50 10man team in ToGC) and overall incredibly reliable and competent guild contributors. However, I'd be hard-pressed to imagine that a team could be open to bringing in applicants to such key roles as a tank and two healers.

I’m really curious as to how those of you in successful teams will be viewing applications from players in my situation. How open are endgame teams to bringing in applicants for key role positions such as ours? I’m certainly prepared to be evaluated and fight for a tanking position, as are my friends for their healing spots. From our end we have been scouring the warcraft recruitment forums as well as the topics posted at EJ. Any other sites you could recommend?

Thanks in advance for your input on this topic.
cds4850
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:49 am

Re: The Endgame Perspective (@Meloree, Wrathy, et all)

Postby Wrathy » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:53 pm

hmmm, where to start...

Our guild has never been against bringing in a group of few talented players, even if they were in key core roles. I think your group has something unique to offer and will end up just fine. In fact, when it is a tank / healer combo, it is very appealing to someone who knows those roles because they work well together, and know what to expect out of each other. However, with that being said, this late in the game with most guilds you are looking to apply to, the rosters are set. I will be honest with you, even with my guild plowing through hard modes, we are not much better off than your old guild. We have attendance issues and still recruit, in fact we are recruiting multiple spots right now.

If you go any higher than our guild level, you are dealing with guilds that maintain 35 plus main raiders to fill out those issues. Slotting in people who are used to be 100% raiding and main contributors is hard to do when you are in the best of the best because you start on the wait list.

The crux of the problem that you are presented with is the fact that you are a MT. That poses even more significant problems at this point of the game. Replacing a MT as you push hard mode encounters is very difficult to do because of the fact that the raid rosters are usually set, and if by happenstance you find a guild that has lost a MT, you can get in but you have not earned the trust of the raiders.

That is the key to this stage of raiding, having implicit trust in their MTs. If you throw a brand new tank into ICC Hard Modes, even if they are great, the rest of the raid doesn't know or trust that yet. If you could provide me with some gear levels that you guys are sitting at, it may be easier to suggest what tier of guild you should be looking to get into. Gearing up a MT or healer during progression is not really an option, so we have to define your progression level first.
Dakiros wrote:Hear that sound? Its Wrathy breaking Wowhead and Wordpress while he quickly comes up with the Rival set.

Avenging Wrathy - A Protection Paladin Blog
Wrathy's Guide to Gear Sets

Image
Wrathy
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: The Endgame Perspective (@Meloree, Wrathy, et all)

Postby Meloree » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:26 pm

Wrathy wrote:If you go any higher than our guild level, you are dealing with guilds that maintain 35 plus main raiders to fill out those issues.


Whaaaaat?

We recruited our way up to 32 recently, but that's the fattest roster we've run, like, ever.

That said, we almost never take combo apps. Even if the fit is perfect - the two apps are the two openings we have - the question you have to ask yourself is "what if one app is good and the other is bad? Can we afford to lose both?" Especially with critical roles like tank/healer, the answer is that it's generally not worth the risk.
Meloree
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:15 am

Re: The Endgame Perspective (@Meloree, Wrathy, et all)

Postby knaughty » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:47 pm

Not sure how hard core you're talking about. We're bouncing around 500+ on wowprogress, got world 400-ish Hard mode Saurfang, working on ICC-hard modes. We spent last week working on Deathwhisper hard, couldn't get it, this week we're trying some easier hard modes, I expect we'll get 8-9 total hard modes this week - should get everything except Deathwhisper, Putricide, Sindragosa and LK.

We run our roster at about 35 people, but we only require 75% attendance and only have a 16-hour raid week (four nights of four hours) - 8 PM till midnight, Wed/Thurs/Sun/Mon, plus an optional 10-man on Friday night (just the single ten-man, usually). Our 16-hour raid week is a significant limitation on progress right now.

Guild is built to cope with people who have jobs or significant university degrees - we don't accept apps from people under 18. All Oceanic guilds ahead of us have significantly tougher raiding schedules, especially when progression content is on (like now) - most are 5-6 night, 5-6 hours a night when there's enough content to support it. We stick to our schedule.

We have very rarely taken combo apps. It has happened, but it's the exception rather than something we're looking for. The gaps pretty much need to be there already, we're not going to go out of our way to make room. Tank recruitment is especially hard to fit in as part of a combo - I try to keep the tanking team extremely stable, and the tanks are people with 100% attendance (not 75%).

Where we have taken combo apps has been when we have 3-5 vacancies which are reasonably flexible and the group app is good match. We also make it very clear that each applicant will have to meet our standards. We'd also require that the group-app didn't have a feature like "All five of us will occasionally miss Thursday night because we go bowling".

Our standard way of offering spots to tank applicants has been for them to get invites on their DPS spec, with the understanding that they'll get to tank 10-man content and be a reserve 25-man tank (we only have 3 full-time tanks). If I lost one of my MTs, the result would be a DPS being promoted from part-time to full-time tank, and that spot being backfilled (Recruiting DPS with tanking off-spec). That way the guild already knows that they have a good tank coming in, because they'll have seen them tank 25-man farm content and 10-man hard-mode stuff. Our part-time tanks tend to have very good gear because we only have the 3 full-time time tanks, so tanking gear goes off-spec pretty fast (and we offer a 90% discount on off-spec gear, but also tend to be a bit heavy handed with loot-council-style "advice": Gee Barney, perhaps you should pass on the healing item given that Fred the SP healed for us twice last week and your off-spec is PVP) Most people get the hint in a hurry. I'll actually toss a marginal tanking upgrade to a reserve tank over taking it personally if it fills a big hole in the reserve tank's gearset.

...

Well, that went a bit off-topc.

Short version:
  1. Tank should be willing to go DPS until a tanking spot opens up.
  2. Don't expect to be able to "fight" for a tanking spot unless you're good enough to make a top-50 guild (you're probably not)
  3. WowProgress is a decent spot to look for spots
  4. This is way easier for Oceanic players - there's only about two-dozen hard-core guilds. Then again, that means you don't have a lot of options. Want a guild that doesn't start raiding before 8PM? OK, you have one choice in the top-20 - my guild.
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
- Knaughty.
User avatar
knaughty
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:06 pm
Location: Sydney, plotting my next diatribe against the forces of ignorance!

Re: The Endgame Perspective (@Meloree, Wrathy, et all)

Postby cds4850 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:16 am

Thanks for the responses; I really appreciate your viewpoints as many of you organize successful raid teams and have to deal with recruiting on a daily basis. Meloree pretty much said what I expected to be true. Luckily though after a few days of scouring the forums I came across a post that was just about what we were looking for:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 9529&sid=1

WE HAVE STARTED HARD MODE 25MAN!

Keyboard Turners is an end game progression guild on the US PVE Server Kul Tiras. We raid 7:30 to 11:30 CST (5:30-9:30 PST) Monday through Thursday. We have realm first Grand Crusader and Death's Demise; we are currently 3/12 in Heroic ICC25 and 9/12 Heroic ICC10. We hold the majority of the server first titles, as well as Ironbound and Rusted Protos, and a number of Algalon kills. We have been the top guild on the server for the majority of BC and just about all WotLK content, including ICC.

Our loot system based off of loot council to greater benefit the guild as a whole rather than the single raider.

Most of us have been playing together for two to three years and are currently recruiting the following classes for full time raiding positions:


HIGH -
*FULL-TIME TANK* - Prot Warrior / Feral Druid
Holy / Disc Priest
Shadow Priest
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman

MEDIUM -
Moonkin Druid
Fury DPS Warrior


Head on over to http://www.subject-to-change.net to fill out an application on our forums. Also feel free to contact Overweight, Pipedream, Atook, myself, or any of our officers in-game if you have any questions. We may be on alts, so just ask anyone and they'll point you in the right direction.

If you do not see your class listed, please feel free to apply. We are always eager to take on exceptional players and all of our recruitment is considered open for anyone who thinks they can top our current raiders.


To make a long story short, they were right at the progression level we wanted (capable of clearing LK25 and just starting out on hard modes... certainly a step up from out 9/12 progression, but I had no interest in making a lateral move or one which was not guaranteed at least the coordination to complete a LK kill.) We posted seperate applications and were very upfront about our positions as former officers, assuring them that we had no intentions of clinging to our old ways or imparting our own organization. We all ended up in vent for about an hour and a half nerding it up with two officers and their raid leader. Transfers in progress now, first raid Tuesday night will tell all.

For reference, our armories were:
Resto Shaman
Resto Druid
Me (edit: goddamn Kirin Tor ring...)
cds4850
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:49 am

Re: The Endgame Perspective (@Meloree, Wrathy, et all)

Postby knaughty » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:39 am

Congratulations!
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
- Knaughty.
User avatar
knaughty
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:06 pm
Location: Sydney, plotting my next diatribe against the forces of ignorance!


Return to Recruitment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: psbot [Picsearch] and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: psbot [Picsearch] and 1 guest
?php } else { ?