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OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

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OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby econ21 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:28 am

I had a strange experience last night - in the Old Kingdom heroic, I attacked a group of about 4 trash mobs called "twilight initiate/apostle/darkcasters" but when I had finished, I turned around to find three of my party dead. Any idea what happened?

According to threatplates, I had all 4 on me and I felt I was doing decent AoE threat anyway. No patrols or anything else came. The three that died were ranged dps, although I think even the shaman healer was very badly hurt.

Looking at wow wiki, the only thing that strikes me is that the Twilight apostles have a lightning shield that reflects damage. I guess that must have been it, but it is surprising. I know about spell flingers being lethal and something to be aware of - now I guess I should watch out for these folks. If they are the problem, I am not quite sure how to handle them - as healers, I would have thought they should die first. I know they can be poly'd and MC'd. But otherwise perhaps I should get the first few hits in to dissipate the shield?

If it wasn't the shield, I guess the darkcasters might have used their AOE attack - it seems a more plausible way than a shield of killing three (nearly four) fairly well geared players. I sometimes get the feeling threatplates are not so accurate, so maybe this was one such case. But I really thought I had aggro on all mobs throughout the fight.
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby blakk » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:35 am

are those the two pulls with the eye of taldaram? if so they use a shadowfury that hurts like a mo fo
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby econ21 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:10 am

No, it wasn't those eyes. I know the pulls you are talking about (the platforms, right?) and they are always bloody, but I get by them. What I am talking about are pulls after you kill the Prince, before getting to the end boss (PUGs tend to skip the optional bosses). Never had a problem with them before last night - they are pulls where I don't expect the party to take any damage at all (let alone die).

Here's a link to a map of where the darkcaster apostles are:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... s%3Disch:1
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby blakk » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:16 am

i just dpsed one such encounter and noticed i got hit with a lot of shadowbolts and got a nasty corruption dot in those pulls. that might be it. healer just couldn't keep up maybe?
(i think these pulls might have a curse that prevents spellcasting or something)
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby bldavis » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:41 am

ive noticed this as well, and as far as i can tell trhe s-bolts are coming from around the boss.

i hadnt had a problem with it until about 2 weeks ago...

maybe a ninja buff to the dungeon? :?
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:16 am

Were they standing in Flamestrike? I know the second pull after Prince, the one to the right of the pat has a caster that can drop a nasty Flamestrike on Heroic. If you're not paying attention, I imagine Corruption, Shadowbolts and that burst damage could kill an inattentive player. I know it used to maul my melee dps when I first ran it. WoWhead says it deals 6938 to 8062 and 3500 every 2 seconds.
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby econ21 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:29 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:I know the second pull after Prince, the one to the right of the pat has a caster that can drop a nasty Flamestrike on Heroic.


That must be it. That was the pull and the damage you quote sounds the right order of magnitude to quickly down nearly 4 of my party bunched up together. I'm still unhappy that the flamestrike targeted them rather than me (suggesting my initial threat was not as good as I thought it was) but at least I know what to look out for - twilight worshippers are the ones with flamestrike.
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby hoho » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:33 am

I'm quite sure the flamestrike goes out to random targets and threat has nothing to do with it.

Pulling 2-3 groups with them and having 2+ flamestrikes ontop of each other is a world of pain.
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby Nikachelle » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:34 am

It's always fucking flamestrike. The dps all love to stand in it and never understand why they don't survive.

Why didn't you just check your Recount death log btw? That'll give you a breakdown of the last few seconds of their life.
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby guillex » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:14 am

Nikachelle wrote:It's always fucking flamestrike. The dps all love to stand in it and never understand why they don't survive.

Why didn't you just check your Recount death log btw? That'll give you a breakdown of the last few seconds of their life.


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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby Belloc » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:51 pm

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Were they standing in Flamestrike? I know the second pull after Prince, the one to the right of the pat has a caster that can drop a nasty Flamestrike on Heroic. If you're not paying attention, I imagine Corruption, Shadowbolts and that burst damage could kill an inattentive player. I know it used to maul my melee dps when I first ran it. WoWhead says it deals 6938 to 8062 and 3500 every 2 seconds.


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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby Kelaan » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:38 am

Nikachelle wrote:Why didn't you just check your Recount death log btw? That'll give you a breakdown of the last few seconds of their life.

This. For those who don't know, Recount lets you select "Deaths" as a metric, and it's my favourite new tool.

You can click any person's death to see a list of deaths. For each death, you can see a ~5-10 second timeline of damage taken and healings received. It's helpful to see that you received no heals for six seconds (why? Oh ... healer was dead), or that player X stood in fire, and so on.

You can also report it to the group if someone complains about you not holding aggro or something, but they died to fires or random targeted stuff. It's absolutely awesome for postmortem analysis.
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:50 am

lol I used it last night while healing on my shammy. I was temporarily distracted by a guildie, and admittedly, I let a rogue die in Oculus, which I did apologize for. However, he started berating me saying he didn't want to lose the gold he spent doing the daily on wipes and that I should pick my shit up and heal. Or not sign up to heal if I wasn't going to do that. Go grab a coffee to wake me up, etc.

I linked the Recount death report. He had stood in: flamestrike, blizzard and was being meleed by a mob (drew aggro).

Of course, it was OBVIOUSLY all my own fault. ;)

But yeah... moral of the story. Nobody wants to admit their mistakes (well, ignorant people don't). Using this, you can prove your case, one way or another.
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Re: OK: twilight mobs - how did they kill my party?

Postby Njall » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:20 am

Nikachelle wrote:lol I used it last night while healing on my shammy. I was temporarily distracted by a guildie,


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