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Specific Benefits to Using a Paladin Tank in ZA

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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Specific Benefits to Using a Paladin Tank in ZA

Postby Igrado » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:32 pm

I'm hoping to edit this post in about 2 weeks after we have compiled and organized a list. For now, let me post some holders and then ask for input.

Premise:
The guild is good enough to be doing some 25 man content, the Tankadin's gear is good enough to be one of the tanks in ZA. The Raid Leader is not overly experienced in ZA, but has read the guides and has a plan set in place. As the guild start learning the trash pulls and boss fights, what suggestions can the Paladin make to the Raid Leader that will help them utilize his strengths? When should the Tankadin instantly defer to another class? What mobs, bosses, or situations fall in between, in that the Paladin is capable of, but not best-suited to tank?

If this "guide" idea doesn't come together, it's no loss, the question still stands from a personal perspective. How can I walk into ZA and say, "Hey, mr GM, instead of doing all that, why don't u just let me tank all 3 of them? they dont silence so I'm golden here." and "no, instead of having the druid tank him all the way, pass him to me in phase 2 cuz blah blah blah." I dunno, maybe I'm just being lazy and should just read a guide or two...
Last edited by Igrado on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Igrado » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:32 pm

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Postby Igrado » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:32 pm

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Postby Everlight » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:24 pm

Bear Boss: We can DS out of the bleeds, and BoP the other tank in case of a taunt resist. Bonus points if you're a Dwarf for Stoneform.

Eagle Gauntlet: We can tank the summoned eagles, warriors, and the static pulls all at the same time :)

I'm sure there's more (Dragonhawk Gauntlet?).
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Postby Blaen99 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:30 pm

DHawk becomes insanely difficult without a paladin tank.

As in, only the guilds that use pally tanks on my server have killed her I believe.
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Postby Zhalseran » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:33 pm

Tankadins are pretty awesome in ZA as far as I have seen. I have done pretty much all of the trash now, killing Nalorakk and Akil'zon, attempted Jan'alai, but not done Halaazi, Malacrass or Zul'Jin.

-Bear boss: In the right situation, DS can be handy in an emergency, although you have to use it wisely, because using it poorly can just lead to a different emergency
-Eagle trash: Eagles. nuff said.
-Dragonhawk Trash: There are a couple groups with large numbers of Dragonhawks that a tankadin are useful for. Avenger's Shield and Hammer of Justice could also come in handy when dealing with scouts.
-Dragonhawk boss: Dragonhawk adds are nothing short of trivial with a Pally tank, reducing the fight to little more than spreading out and avoiding bombs.
-Lynx trash: There are many fights that involve large numbers of Lynxes, most notably those where as many as 5+ elite lynxes will spawn right on top of you. AoE tanking is very much ftw in these situations.
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Postby Stylaan » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:35 pm

Nalorakk Trash:

Nothing special about paladins over any other types of tanks, I suppose if the group is terrible enough that the paladin ends up with 2 stacks of Roar from the Warbringers (Bear Riders) that he can DS/Cancel to escape a potential gib without losing aggro (for more than a second anyways).

Nalorakk:

Great as either tank in bear or troll phase, using a /cast [target=<ot's name>] Blessing of Protection macro you can overcome the small chance that your taunt is resisted during a transition. It is also possible for you to once again DS/Cancel to negate either the bleed or the mangle if your OT should fall and he's a few % from death or if your OT has missed/resisted taunts.

Akil'zon Trash:
Ranged taunt + HS + cons + ret aura is excellent for maintaining aggro on birds and trolls that are coming in waves while your other tank can consistently pull and tank the kill targets as you work up the gauntlet. Of course, you can't tank too many elites and people doing AoE on the birds will be chipping away at the trolls that are running up from the back side. Periodically stop to kill the mobs on you as you move up the ramp.

Akil'zon:
He can crush, so crush invulnerability is nice. His Call Lightning + Crush ability used after a static charge is a hefty amount of burst, that said, if you're similarly geared to a warrior he probably doesn't attack fast enough to crush a well equipped warrior after TClap is up so you may be more useful healing and keeping judgements up.

Jan'alai Trash:

Immensely useful for picking up multiple dragonhawks as well as any reinforcements that might be roused by the scouts your group fails to kill (entangle them on sight if possible). The reinforcements are rather weak for elites and if your group seriously messes up you can probably tank 4-5 of them with no real problems. The dragonhawks are weak too, but the flamecasters and guardians (who will purge sheeps on the casters) are more of a challenge, you can tank a guardian and a bunch of other trash mobs while a flamecaster is MC'd or spam-sheepd.

Jan'alai:
Kill a hatcher, bring the other one to 20%, let him hatch 20 eggs, keep cons and SoW up, tank all of them, get the aoe to kill them, switch to the other side after. Bubble-cleanse the debuffs off you before switching sides.

Pretty much makes this fight a lot less hectic.

Halazzi Trash:
Nothing really, AoE tanking Lynxes is a strength, other than that the trash here is really easy. Mindful of the MC, they will occasionally waste your LoH so bubbling out is recommended.

Halazzi:
As a secondary tank you can disengage with a sun eater (or other mitigation weapon) and soak Saberlashes, following each saberlash you typically have a window to cast an HL11 on yourself to buffer the damage you take for your healers. I wouldn't risk casting two, I've never had him saberlash twice within 2.5 seconds but I wouldn't chance anything more than that. He's tauntable so even if your MT goes down and he's low you can pop trinkets, nightmare seeds, ironshields, and LoH if necessary to solo tank for a short duration with a bit of luck, whether or not he's low enough to be killed or if there's enough time for your other tank to receive a battle res is dependant on how far along he's down and how much luck you have.

Malacrass:
Nothing special here. Kind of gimpy really since this is somewhat of a dps race, I suppose you can be used to tank multiple adds.

Zul'jin:
Absolutely nothing to do here but heal. Tanking is annoying in Eagle Phase since every one of your skills zaps you for 1k and every one of your healers' heals zaps them for 1k -.-
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Postby Aalryn » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:52 pm

Stylaan wrote:Halazzi Trash:
Nothing really, AoE tanking Lynxes is a strength, other than that the trash here is really easy. Mindful of the MC, they will occasionally waste your LoH so bubbling out is recommended.


If you have agro you dont get mind controlled.




Stylaan wrote:Zul'jin:
Absolutely nothing to do here but heal. Tanking is annoying in Eagle Phase since every one of your skills zaps you for 1k and every one of your healers' heals zaps them for 1k -.-


just a note: warriors dont tank eagle boss either. there is no agro in this phase. What I do on zul'jin here is just throw out some holy lights as people get low. i heal for about 3500, get hurt for about 1200 (a fair trade especially if another healer is on the opposite side of the person hurt)


I actually believe a paladin tank is superior to a warrior on zul'jin because of our large, up front agro. every 20% for the switch we just save up a judgement cooldown, stand back as he switches forms with a consecration on the area and toss a shield & judge. Instant 4-6k agro. A warrior would have to slowly build threat each phase.

On the bear phase we can provide an extra set of cleanses for the paralysis including our own, eliminating the chance of the tank getting paralyzed.

On the tiger phase we can provide an extra BOP if a clothie gets targeted.





This instance is a true proving ground to guilds of what a paladin tank is capable of. Even an average geared paladin tank will outshine a warrior and may open more guilds up to the ideas of running a paladin tank.
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Postby Stylaan » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:59 pm

Aalryn wrote:
Stylaan wrote:Halazzi Trash:
Nothing really, AoE tanking Lynxes is a strength, other than that the trash here is really easy. Mindful of the MC, they will occasionally waste your LoH so bubbling out is recommended.


If you have agro you dont get mind controlled.


This is true, though often I'll be drinking after a pull and my other tank will continue pulling and I'll be MC'd occasionally.

Stylaan wrote:Zul'jin:
Absolutely nothing to do here but heal. Tanking is annoying in Eagle Phase since every one of your skills zaps you for 1k and every one of your healers' heals zaps them for 1k -.-


just a note: warriors dont tank eagle boss either. there is no agro in this phase. What I do on zul'jin here is just throw out some holy lights as people get low. i heal for about 3500, get hurt for about 1200 (a fair trade especially if another healer is on the opposite side of the person hurt)

I actually believe a paladin tank is superior to a warrior on zul'jin because of our large, up front agro. every 20% for the switch we just save up a judgement cooldown, stand back as he switches forms with a consecration on the area and toss a shield & judge. Instant 4-6k agro. A warrior would have to slowly build threat each phase.

On the bear phase we can provide an extra set of cleanses for the paralysis including our own, eliminating the chance of the tank getting paralyzed.

On the tiger phase we can provide an extra BOP if a clothie gets targeted.


You're right on these counts, though it's going to come down to me and a warrior most times since our group doesn't have any druids :( and my healing/cleansing is more valuable than his DPS in most cases. But if the reverse were true I could see where you're going with this, still, the extra BoP is provided regardless of whether or not you tank.

This instance is a true proving ground to guilds of what a paladin tank is capable of. Even an average geared paladin tank will outshine a warrior and may open more guilds up to the ideas of running a paladin tank.


I think you're jumping the gun a little with that statement. A well geared tank is still a well geared tank and although I agree that a paladin greatly simplifies the instance, I don't want to give people the idea that an undergeared paladin will outperform a better-equipped warrior. Not all the bosses favour that type of mentality.
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Postby Zhalseran » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:10 pm

Stylaan wrote:the extra BoP is provided regardless of whether or not you tank.


This is true, but if your trying to convince someone to tank ZA, then your not necessarily there in the first place
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:18 pm

Zhalseran wrote:
Stylaan wrote:the extra BoP is provided regardless of whether or not you tank.


This is true, but if your trying to convince someone to tank ZA, then your not necessarily there in the first place


Indeed, the Prot Pally vs. Holy Pally is a false comparison. If you're not taking the Prot Pally, you're taking a different tank, not a Holy Pally.
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Postby Stylaan » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:58 am

Dorvan wrote:
Zhalseran wrote:
Stylaan wrote:the extra BoP is provided regardless of whether or not you tank.


This is true, but if your trying to convince someone to tank ZA, then your not necessarily there in the first place


Indeed, the Prot Pally vs. Holy Pally is a false comparison. If you're not taking the Prot Pally, you're taking a different tank, not a Holy Pally.


That wasn't the comparison, but rather even if I wasn't tanking Zul'jin (and healing while my partner tanked, be it a druid or a warrior) then the BoP would still be available. I'm in the raid, I don't need to be tanking every single boss fight to contribute.
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Postby Igrado » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:34 am

The BOP discussion is very cursory. The premise of the OP was that the guild is already taking the Paladin tank; however, it is still helpful to point out arguments for taking a Paladin tank over other tanks.
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Postby Lansky » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:48 am

Paladin tanks allow for the trash to AE'd in larger pulls and a faster clear. I know people have completed the timed event without a paladin tank, but I do not envy them.
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Postby Myotis » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:23 pm

Zhalseran wrote:Avenger's Shield and Hammer of Justice could also come in handy when dealing with scouts.


Yes indeed. However, warriors have concussion blow, druids bash and entangling roots.
Last edited by Myotis on Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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