Tidewalker - Graves.

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Tidewalker - Graves.

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:15 am

From another thread:

ehly wrote:I know semi-offtopic

Sharow wrote:
ehly wrote:We actually have a guild ret, toss on his tanking gear for Morogrim to help gather murlocs. So a second would be nice for that fight, as the randomness on the watery grave sucks :(


I know this isn't the place for it but the randomness that is watery grave can be circumvented by raid positioning making this the most predictable, routing fight in the instance.


Btw thanks :D I've been trying to get them to do it a different way. And you reminded me of the better way. A few video links later the raid leader like we'll try that. Worked like a charm.

Our ret was much happier too now he can actually dps. So that leaves us with one full time prot pally and one full time ret pally (no pretend prot pallies now for that fight)


Would you mind linking the videos that deal with removing randomness from the watery grave?

We had one attempt last night end in about 30 seconds when both MT healers got graved, and another attempt that went horribly wrong when I got graved five times in a row.

A better way to handle this would be lurvely.

(I do AOE tank all the murlocs; I drop a pre-emptive cons on where the MT is standing so the first wave comes right at me; I time it so I can pop another cons right when they get to me and the 2nd wave from the south starts arriving.)
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Postby Warrender » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:42 am

Old pic but here is where I stand when I tank the Murlocs. I gain aggro dropping 2-3 Holy Lights on the target Warlock with Amplify Magic/Fel Armor/Blessing of Light. Both packs usually get to me at roughly the same time and once they get in my Consecration it's AOE time. Morogrim is being tanked in back of me near the entrance to the hallway so me, the Warlock, and my Healer are out of Grave range. Once it gets to phase 2 and the bubbles start coming out everyone crowds near Morogrim into the hallway and I tank the Murlocs there.

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Postby jere » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:57 am

Where is Morogrim positioned in this setup? Behind where he stands initially, or to the side, etc?
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Postby Warrender » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:59 am

jere wrote:Where is Morogrim positioned in this setup? Behind where he stands initially, or to the side, etc?


He's being tanked in back of me at the mouth of the hallway leading to FLK.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:05 pm

Our warrior MT tanks him right in front of the hallway during phase 1, at phase 2 we hop over the doorway to avoid the bubbles. The entire raid except the MT and the hunters stacks up on top of my head. Right before an earthquake I drop a cons on the MT to pick up wave 1, and start raidhealing a bit. By the time wave 1 reaches me, cons is back up and I drop it and pick up wave 2.

When nothing goes wrong this fight is stupidly simple.

The problem we have is the RNG is fucking sadistic and I get graved a lot, which pretty much fucks the raid if it happens right before or right after a pack of adds. Or if both the MT healers get graved at the same time.

Dear Blizzard: randomness like this (and infernal placement on prince) makes encounters harder, but it does not MAKE THEM FUN GODDAMNIT.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:09 pm

Ah, reading the other thread makes your positioning much clearer.

You just OOR the Tomb; can the MT healers do the same? Or does that start getting too chaotic with regards to positioning and add control?
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Postby Warrender » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:20 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:Ah, reading the other thread makes your positioning much clearer.

You just OOR the Tomb; can the MT healers do the same? Or does that start getting too chaotic with regards to positioning and add control?


We don't have the MT Healers try to OOR the grave but rather just have the other healers cover for them until they get back into the action.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:07 pm

We do the same thing as Warrender except that after I cast my 2 Holy Lights I start backing up from that position to Tidewalkers feet where the Murlocks are AoE'd down.

This is absolutely not necessery but my guild prefers it because it speeds the fight up slightly as opposed to tanking and AoEing them at the graves.
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Postby Warrender » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:10 pm

Yup, there's so many ways to do this fight that there really is no ONE right way.

But if your problem is the tankadin getting graved all the time, then you should know there is something you can do to eliminate that problem.
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Postby Crusherus » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:37 pm

If I read up on the fight correctly, he can only target players within 50 yards for his Watery Grave ability. If you stand over 50 yards away then he won't grave you. You should still be able to heal the /wrists warlock and never worry about graves.

I think the strategy I saw has the murloc tank standing right near the graves where Tidewalker is originally pulled from. He twiddles his thumbs until the earthquake and then starts chain healing to get murloc aggro. Keep a healer back there with you and you should be fine. Over 50 yards from Tidewalker = win.
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Postby Gracerath » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:48 pm

We take the RNG head on and pray. We just all manpile on his left leg and I heal when the murlocs come out, drop consecrates and then call for AE. All of the AE then hits tidewalker as well and there is very little loss of dps rather than having an "AE group" out of range somewhere not dpsing the boss.

I have been graved like 3 times in a row once (which led to a wipe naturally) and none at all, or just one where I bubble out of and run back to the raid.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:34 pm

I also tank the murlocs right next to Morogrim. I've thought about changing up our strat to be less random, but we've had him on farm for a couple months now and consistently one-shot him, so it doesn't seem worthwhile to rock the boat at this point. Our keys to success have been:

1. Learning not to blow DS too soon. If I get graved right before murlocs get called I don't DS...that's saved for situations where I'm graved in the middle of a murloc pull. This is possible because of

2. The raid has learned to react quickly when I get graved. Mages frost nova, everyone runs out of the area, and I get there as fast as possible. Because I've got minor run speed and save my DS for those "mid-pull grave" situations, I'm never away for more than 5-6 seconds. If all else fails

3. We've got a prot warrior around to buy us a couple of extra seconds while I get back there.

If you're just starting out on this fight, you're probably better off learning it the non-grave way, but if you're having problems with it or learned it without that, it's definitely possible to consistently 1-shot morogrim, even with unlucky graves.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:54 pm

Our only prot warrior in the raid is the one standing in front of Tidewalker, unfortunately.

I don't mind so much if I get graved in the middle of a pack -- the cons aggro is usually enough that the murlocks will come after me in my grave, instead of eating the raid. It's when i get graved a second before the wave arrives and DS is still on CD because I just bubbled out of the /last/ grave that happened just before a murlock wave.

Which has happened. Twice.

We pretty much killed Tidewalker the first time I looked at him, and have killed him twice. I just wish it didn't have to take 3-4 attempts.

I think it'll just take some teaching our raid how to handle it -- e.g., fn and gtfo until I can get back. We have a hunter with a tankadin alt that can provide some redundancy on that fight; if we have enough pallys in the raid we can have someone pop RF and continue healing so he takes some hits instead of the DPS.

I just don't like the idea of twiddling fingers out in the middle of nowhere and having some dps split their attention between two different targets and doing a half-ass job on both.

Meh. I guess we'll just keep on doing what we're doing, and swear at the RNG and curse at the heavens.

It's times like this that it's nice that we keep our god in the basement.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:43 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
I just don't like the idea of twiddling fingers out in the middle of nowhere and having some dps split their attention between two different targets and doing a half-ass job on both.


Sometimes I swear people just don't pay attention.


Dragonzbane wrote:We do the same thing as Warrender except that after I cast my 2 Holy Lights I start backing up from that position to Tidewalkers feet where the Murlocks are AoE'd down.

This is absolutely not necessery but my guild prefers it because it speeds the fight up slightly as opposed to tanking and AoEing them at the graves.


With everyone but myself and the MT salv'd and my target warlock buffed with light, fel armor, and amp magic the is never an issue with agro.

Getting agro on the murlocks while standing at the graves completely eliminates the possiblity that I get graved. Not 3 times in a row, not twice, not ever.

Backing the Murlocks from the graves to Tidewalker eliminates any possiblity that the AoE will not hit Tidewalker. It also helps remove any random downtime as once the Murlocks are down you head back to the graves and get ready for the next batch.
Last edited by Dragonzbane on Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:25 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:47 am

Gracerath wrote:All of the AE then hits tidewalker as well and there is very little loss of dps rather than having an "AE group" out of range somewhere not dpsing the boss.



That's no different from what I do except you can get graved and I don't.


If you wipe on this fight once, then you've wiped too many times.


Just remember the downtime involved in a wipe when you're trying to scrap time together for a Vashj kill or trying to get SSC and TK down in one week or trying to breeze through quickly to get someone keyed for Hyjal.
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