[Ret-PvE]

[loozer]

I have the 2pc T10 and the 2pc T9 bonuses, and I was thinking of getting the 4pc T10 bonus. I was wondering if you guys knew if the 4pc T10 would do more damage than then 2pc T9. The judgment damage looks great, but I am not sure it will out perform the RV dot crit.

Thanks,

Loozer

[Baelor]

I have the 2pc T10 and the 2pc T9 bonuses, and I was thinking of getting the 4pc T10 bonus. I was wondering if you guys knew if the 4pc T10 would do more damage than then 2pc T9. The judgment damage looks great, but I am not sure it will out perform the RV dot crit.

Thanks,

Loozer

258 2pc + 251 2pc > 251 4pc

Get a spreadsheet or Rawr

[guillex]

Hijacking for a minute.

From what I can gleam from my terrible memory...

4pcT9 FCFS rotation is: Judge -> HoW -> CS -> DS -> Cons -> Exo

With 2pcT9/2pcT10, is it now: Judge -> HoW -> DS -> CS -> Cons -> Exo ??

I can't remember, and I can't hit up other sites at work.

[Baelor]

Hijacking for a minute.

From what I can gleam from my terrible memory...

4pcT9 FCFS rotation is: Judge -> HoW -> CS -> DS -> Cons -> Exo

With 2pcT9/2pcT10, is it now: Judge -> HoW -> DS -> CS -> Cons -> Exo ??

I can't remember, and I can't hit up other sites at work.

Judge > CS > DS > HoW > Cons > Exo

It might not be right all the time, but that's what I've been using since tier 9. As your seal procs get stronger, the opportunity for more seal procs outweighs the HoW damage. This is especially true for t10 since you can DS a ton.

[Modal]

Agree; HoW is low priority for me now, too, in Rawr and in practice.

Personally I have been having a hard time deciding if I should CS or DS first, though. Rawr says CS, but only by a couple dps, and I don't think we can expect it to model 2pc t10 very precisely.

Then again I finally picked up Libram of Three Truths, which means that CS gets higher priority at least until it's stacked. But then what about after?

[Kedon]

CS first.

Stacking the T10 libram faster is obviously an upside. CS > DS also makes a huge difference on mana if you have any issues due to lower effective cooldown on DS.

[Elsie]

CS first.

Stacking the T10 libram faster is obviously an upside. CS > DS also makes a huge difference on mana if you have any issues due to lower effective cooldown on DS.

Once you have 2pc t10, DS should be a higher priority than CS.

[Kedon]

Rawr does prefer CS > DS.

The difference is small, but still.

[thegreatheed]

Once you have 1 upgraded piece of t10, 3x251 + 1x264 for 4pc t10 > any t9 bonuses. Course, this is only if you have 2 pieces of fully upgraded t9 (ilvl 258). Otherwise, 4pc t10 as soon as you can.

At least that was the conclusion last time i visited the EJ ret forum.

[Modal]

So, yeah, Rawr says CS > DS, apparently Elsie disagrees, and yet still no actual reasons for prioritizing one over the other appear! Except for possible mana efficiency issues, I guess.

[Baelor]

So, yeah, Rawr says CS > DS, apparently Elsie disagrees, and yet still no actual reasons for prioritizing one over the other appear! Except for possible mana efficiency issues, I guess.

I agree with Rawr (and thereby disagree with Elsie). CS > DS always, even after 2pc t10. DS > CS creates more potential cooldown clashes.

[guillex]

So, yeah, Rawr says CS > DS, apparently Elsie disagrees, and yet still no actual reasons for prioritizing one over the other appear! Except for possible mana efficiency issues, I guess.

I agree with Rawr (and thereby disagree with Elsie). CS > DS always, even after 2pc t10. DS > CS creates more potential cooldown clashes.

From what I was seeing last night, it wasn't clashing much, if at all.

I'm going to have to run one raid night as DS>CS, then another as CS>DS, and parse it. I can't get to retpaladin.com, but I'm absolutely sure that they suggested DS>CS was greater DPS with 2pcT10.

I'm very possibly wrong, though.

[guillex]

So, from EJ's The Basic Rotation section for Ret pallies in 3.3:

Basic clash resolution is as follows: HoW > Judgement > CS > DS > Consecration > Exorcism > Holy Wrath
At T10 levels of gear, Judgement > DS > CS > HoW > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath is theorized to be the most dps.
For modified clash resolutions, see below.

and why:

1. Judgement - Hardest hitter, returns mana, can't go wrong with this as your top priority.
2. DS - DS only pulls ahead of CS with 2pcT10 equipped, as its' effective cooldown drops to 6 seconds, and it hits much harder than CS does.
3. CS - Because of the short CD and ability to proc a seal, you want to keep this on cooldown as much as possible.
4. HoW - This skill only comes into play when a mob is at 20%; it then becomes high priority due to it's extremely high crit rate and fairly short CD.
5. Consecration - Consecration moves near the top of the pile only against multiple (4+) adds.
6. Exorcism - It hits hard, but because of it's somewhat long cooldown (15s) and reliance on spellhit, it isn't great dps. Do not use this on a pull because it will not be instant cast, and will delay entering melee combat.
7. Holy Wrath - Only effective against multiple (6+) demons/undead, you are better off using your free GCD casting DP or a SS on someone. This is as close to a mana dump skill as we have.

[Baelor]

Eh, I operate on my own anecdotal evidence and have stopped paying mind to EJ. Do DS>CS then. Just keep Judgement first and you really can't go wrong.

[guillex]

Eh, I operate on my own anecdotal evidence and have stopped paying mind to EJ. Do DS>CS then. Just keep Judgement first and you really can't go wrong.

Fair enough. It was more directed towards Modal, who wanted some sort of proof.