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[Ret-PvE]

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[Ret-PvE]

Postby loozer » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:56 pm

I have the 2pc T10 and the 2pc T9 bonuses, and I was thinking of getting the 4pc T10 bonus. I was wondering if you guys knew if the 4pc T10 would do more damage than then 2pc T9. The judgment damage looks great, but I am not sure it will out perform the RV dot crit.

Thanks,

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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Baelor » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:53 pm

loozer wrote:I have the 2pc T10 and the 2pc T9 bonuses, and I was thinking of getting the 4pc T10 bonus. I was wondering if you guys knew if the 4pc T10 would do more damage than then 2pc T9. The judgment damage looks great, but I am not sure it will out perform the RV dot crit.

Thanks,

Loozer

258 2pc + 251 2pc > 251 4pc

Get a spreadsheet or Rawr
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby guillex » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:43 am

Hijacking for a minute.

From what I can gleam from my terrible memory...

4pcT9 FCFS rotation is: Judge -> HoW -> CS -> DS -> Cons -> Exo

With 2pcT9/2pcT10, is it now: Judge -> HoW -> DS -> CS -> Cons -> Exo ??

I can't remember, and I can't hit up other sites at work.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Baelor » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:05 am

guillex wrote:Hijacking for a minute.

From what I can gleam from my terrible memory...

4pcT9 FCFS rotation is: Judge -> HoW -> CS -> DS -> Cons -> Exo

With 2pcT9/2pcT10, is it now: Judge -> HoW -> DS -> CS -> Cons -> Exo ??

I can't remember, and I can't hit up other sites at work.

Judge > CS > DS > HoW > Cons > Exo

It might not be right all the time, but that's what I've been using since tier 9. As your seal procs get stronger, the opportunity for more seal procs outweighs the HoW damage. This is especially true for t10 since you can DS a ton.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Modal » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:57 am

Agree; HoW is low priority for me now, too, in Rawr and in practice.

Personally I have been having a hard time deciding if I should CS or DS first, though. Rawr says CS, but only by a couple dps, and I don't think we can expect it to model 2pc t10 very precisely.

Then again I finally picked up Libram of Three Truths, which means that CS gets higher priority at least until it's stacked. But then what about after?
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Kedon » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:38 pm

CS first.

Stacking the T10 libram faster is obviously an upside. CS > DS also makes a huge difference on mana if you have any issues due to lower effective cooldown on DS.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Elsie » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:12 am

Kedon wrote:CS first.

Stacking the T10 libram faster is obviously an upside. CS > DS also makes a huge difference on mana if you have any issues due to lower effective cooldown on DS.

Once you have 2pc t10, DS should be a higher priority than CS.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Kedon » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:06 am

Rawr does prefer CS > DS.

The difference is small, but still.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby thegreatheed » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:50 am

Once you have 1 upgraded piece of t10, 3x251 + 1x264 for 4pc t10 > any t9 bonuses. Course, this is only if you have 2 pieces of fully upgraded t9 (ilvl 258). Otherwise, 4pc t10 as soon as you can.

At least that was the conclusion last time i visited the EJ ret forum.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Modal » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:05 pm

So, yeah, Rawr says CS > DS, apparently Elsie disagrees, and yet still no actual reasons for prioritizing one over the other appear! Except for possible mana efficiency issues, I guess.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Baelor » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:26 am

Modal wrote:So, yeah, Rawr says CS > DS, apparently Elsie disagrees, and yet still no actual reasons for prioritizing one over the other appear! Except for possible mana efficiency issues, I guess.

I agree with Rawr (and thereby disagree with Elsie). CS > DS always, even after 2pc t10. DS > CS creates more potential cooldown clashes.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby guillex » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:46 am

Baelor wrote:
Modal wrote:So, yeah, Rawr says CS > DS, apparently Elsie disagrees, and yet still no actual reasons for prioritizing one over the other appear! Except for possible mana efficiency issues, I guess.

I agree with Rawr (and thereby disagree with Elsie). CS > DS always, even after 2pc t10. DS > CS creates more potential cooldown clashes.


From what I was seeing last night, it wasn't clashing much, if at all.

I'm going to have to run one raid night as DS>CS, then another as CS>DS, and parse it. I can't get to retpaladin.com, but I'm absolutely sure that they suggested DS>CS was greater DPS with 2pcT10.

I'm very possibly wrong, though.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby guillex » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:03 pm

So, from EJ's The Basic Rotation section for Ret pallies in 3.3:

Basic clash resolution is as follows: HoW > Judgement > CS > DS > Consecration > Exorcism > Holy Wrath
At T10 levels of gear, Judgement > DS > CS > HoW > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath is theorized to be the most dps.
For modified clash resolutions, see below.


and why:

1. Judgement - Hardest hitter, returns mana, can't go wrong with this as your top priority.
2. DS - DS only pulls ahead of CS with 2pcT10 equipped, as its' effective cooldown drops to 6 seconds, and it hits much harder than CS does.
3. CS - Because of the short CD and ability to proc a seal, you want to keep this on cooldown as much as possible.
4. HoW - This skill only comes into play when a mob is at 20%; it then becomes high priority due to it's extremely high crit rate and fairly short CD.
5. Consecration - Consecration moves near the top of the pile only against multiple (4+) adds.
6. Exorcism - It hits hard, but because of it's somewhat long cooldown (15s) and reliance on spellhit, it isn't great dps. Do not use this on a pull because it will not be instant cast, and will delay entering melee combat.
7. Holy Wrath - Only effective against multiple (6+) demons/undead, you are better off using your free GCD casting DP or a SS on someone. This is as close to a mana dump skill as we have.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby Baelor » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:36 pm

Eh, I operate on my own anecdotal evidence and have stopped paying mind to EJ. Do DS>CS then. Just keep Judgement first and you really can't go wrong.
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Re: [Ret-PvE]

Postby guillex » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:15 pm

Baelor wrote:Eh, I operate on my own anecdotal evidence and have stopped paying mind to EJ. Do DS>CS then. Just keep Judgement first and you really can't go wrong.


Fair enough. It was more directed towards Modal, who wanted some sort of proof.
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