[pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

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Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Kelaan » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:17 pm

That seems to be about par for most DPS I run into in randoms. I think you're doing fine. Keep in mind that you probably do not have fully synergistic buffs from your group (kings+might+haste+sunders). Sunders or expose armor are especially important if you're Marks, and even more so if you were gearing towards arpen. (I think you did right to stay with agi's versatility.)

Upgrading your weapon, as well as getting a nicer trinket like the scorpion which I know you are already going after, your gear looks spiffy. Better than my dps gear, that's for sure. Past that ... you might consider carefully what the breakpoint is on when Volley is better damage on a group than single target burning things. (More than 2 enemies? More than 3? More than 4? I see people volleying when there are two enemies, and doubt that's optimal.) Also, since so much of your DPS depends on standing still (though admittedly less than Sniper Training in SV), minimizing movement will help a lot. Autoshot is still a significant chunk of your damage.

Also, I assume you are being aggressive about burning cooldowns on bosses. Trinkets, RF, FD when necessary, Readiness and RF again, that sort of thing. I know when I was BM spec in TBC I was not always aggressive on poppin' the big red cat. (Admittedly, short of rapid fire, hunters don't have many built in cooldowns to pop.)
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Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Doogiehowser » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:27 pm

Don't forget to stack your pet's Call of the Wild with your Rapid Fire too. I always seem to forget that one so I made a macro including both Call of the Wild and Rapid Fire.
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Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby fafhrd » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:17 pm

Hunters can't cleave like warriors/pallies/dks or intant mobile aoe as well as rogues/cats so heroic dps is mostly about exploiting volley, explosive trap and kill shot whenever you have ~3.5 mobs up. Heroics as MM are kinda sketchy anyway since you don't do good single target without 2 gcds spent on marking and stinging your target first, you likely don't have a bleed debuff and sunders on the targets (and most things die too quickly for your bleeds/sting to tick all the way), and your mana regen is completely reliant on getting killing blows. My gear is much better for MM, but I still go SV for heroics just because it's easier.

For bosses, 4.8k is plenty more than lots of pugs in your gear, so don't worry about it.
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Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby hthomas13 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:35 am

I skimmed through this form and did not see what im going to say, but if it is there shame on me.

The magic number for selling out on ArP is 1200. If you can get that (or very close)...get it. You can check Jezyboy on Cenarius US if you want an example of what his gear looks like, as he is the hunter I raid with who I get information from. Now, he may or may not be in his gear because he loves to walk around in t8 gear or his PvP set, but there is a good chance he has it on (granted he has 5820 gearscore and not everyone plays that much, and thats the problem with selling out on ArP)

I hope that is useful
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Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Levantine » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:05 am

I always just assumed the ArP route was viable if you had access to one of the ArP trinkets and raided (so the fights were long enough lul).
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Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby blkthunder » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:25 am

hthomas13 wrote:I skimmed through this form and did not see what im going to say, but if it is there shame on me.

The magic number for selling out on ArP is 1200. If you can get that (or very close)...get it. You can check Jezyboy on Cenarius US if you want an example of what his gear looks like, as he is the hunter I raid with who I get information from. Now, he may or may not be in his gear because he loves to walk around in t8 gear or his PvP set, but there is a good chance he has it on (granted he has 5820 gearscore and not everyone plays that much, and thats the problem with selling out on ArP)

I hope that is useful

The hard cap is closer to 1400, i believe 1450. Again, if you're hardcapped it shouldnt make much of a difference but if you're only soft capped (read: arpen is maxed under the effect of your trinket) you're gonna hit like a kitten when not procced. People over value Arpen, you'll get most of it FROM GEAR and if you're needing to gem for it you're likely too low to consider it.
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Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby fafhrd » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:07 pm

The hardcap is exactly 1400. It's completely viable to play with one of the arp trinkets though at much lower passive arp - if your passive arp puts you within a few gems of the softcap for that trinket (1400 minus whatever amount the trinket procs), gemming up to the softcap is worthwhile too.

There is no magic number to aim for in any case. People can say "get 800 first!" or "get at least 1200 from gemming first!", they are in general wrong because it depends on too many variables. Use the spreadsheet. Gem or gear whatever gives you the best DPS on the spreadsheet. There is no rule anyone in a forum thread, here or anywhere else, that is going to give you better DPS than that, especially with respect to arp (haste is a slightly different beast, since whether you realize the gain a spreadsheet predicts from haste depends on whether you play as well as the spreadsheet assumes you do - this is not the case for other stats being modelled). There is pretty much nothing subjective about average DPS, you can and should math it all out, which is what spreadsheets are for.
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Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby blkthunder » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:02 pm

fafhrd wrote:The hardcap is exactly 1400. It's completely viable to play with one of the arp trinkets though at much lower passive arp - if your passive arp puts you within a few gems of the softcap for that trinket (1400 minus whatever amount the trinket procs), gemming up to the softcap is worthwhile too.

There is no magic number to aim for in any case. People can say "get 800 first!" or "get at least 1200 from gemming first!", they are in general wrong because it depends on too many variables. Use the spreadsheet. Gem or gear whatever gives you the best DPS on the spreadsheet. There is no rule anyone in a forum thread, here or anywhere else, that is going to give you better DPS than that, especially with respect to arp (haste is a slightly different beast, since whether you realize the gain a spreadsheet predicts from haste depends on whether you play as well as the spreadsheet assumes you do - this is not the case for other stats being modelled). There is pretty much nothing subjective about average DPS, you can and should math it all out, which is what spreadsheets are for.


Fahtrim wrote:Grim Toll = 788
612 ArP Rating (~43.72%). To reach soft-cap, you need 787.57 ArP (~56.27%). (Gem and eat for 788 armor pen, after that go agi)
Mjolnir Runestone = 735
665 ArP Rating (~47.51%). To reach soft-cap, you need 734.57 ArP. (gem and eat for 735 armor pen, after that go agi)
Needle Encrusted Scorpion = 722
678 ArP Rating. To reach soft cap you need 722 Arp (gem and eat for 722 ArP, after that go agi)


http://forums.tkasomething.com/showthre ... post139082

^^^ = minimum arpen for soft cap. Its pretty straight forward but keep in mind gemming is generally less than 400 potential arpen and thats with GEM HEAVY gear. I only get like 200 from my gear so you're milage may vary.
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