Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby twigss » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:17 pm

I just hit 80 a couple of weeks ago. I have been steadily gearing up with the help of some ICC geared friends. I am running into a problem holding threat against their 5k+ DPS in heroics. Obviously I shouldn't be able to hold constant threat against DPS that ridiculously outgear me, but I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions. Should I dump some avoidance in favor of better DPS gear? Should I just let the go and try to taunt back (this is what I've been doing with sporadic results)

Secondly, As I am gearing up, I came to realize that if I want to get into a raid, I won't likely be the MT right off the bat. I might do some off-tanking, but I get a feeling that in some cases, even the OT spot will be filled. Obviously this is where an offspec would helpful. I am trying to pick up some gear for an offspec as I gear my main spec, but I was wondering what I should use as an offspec?

I would love to get some opinions on Holy vs. Ret as an offspec to Protection.
twigss
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:07 pm

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby econ21 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:43 am

I seldom run heroics with people doing 5k dps, so I don't know about whether starter tanks should be able to hold threat. I suspect what is happening is that the dps so outgear the place, they are nuking everything - figuring that stuff will die soon enough that even if they agro it, it is not a problem. About the only time I have had trouble holding aggro was with a warlock who adopted that attitude. Just relying on taunt rather than changing your gear seems eminently sensible - everyone and their dog seems to say threat is not an issue for raiding tankadins, so gearing for it seems mistaken*. Personally, I would not mind as long as mobs are keeping off your healer (use righteous defence if he/she is aggroed). ICC geared dps should have a threat meter, so if they are in danger getting aggro, they can avoid it if they want.

I too have not decided about an offspec. Given your interest in contributing to your raids, the best thing would just be to ask your raid leader(s) what would be more useful for your guild. There was a long thread about it on this site and most tanks said dps is more fun for a pally but the role of a healer sounds more interesting to me. However, ret may be a more natural offspec for casual play, in the sense that raid healing may be more demanding and critical. I feel you'd have to put in almost as much time and money into getting good at healing as you are doing in tanking to keep your guild happy. Whereas, they might be more relaxed if your offspec dps is not stellar. I would say that gearing up for ilevel 200 healing is MUCH easier than gearing up for the same dps. No one wants healadin drops in heroics, but we have to compete with DK and Warriors for the dps stuff. Personally, I am building up a PVP Ret set - with a lot of high item level stuff available for honour, it's an easy way to gear up and will be higher dps than ilevel 200 drops. When I am done with that, I will return to the issue of choosing an offspec (my PVP Ret gear is for fun as prot in Wintergrasp).


EDIT: * A rider to that - according to RAWR, it is the weapon and the shield that contribute most to a tankadin's threat, so you might just want to check what you have got in those two slots are the best they can be. I've always regarded my weapon as my most important item, but RAWR implies my shield is close to it. There are not a lot of good pre-raid shields out there - titansteel is about as good as it gets (COS (H) has a subsitute; normal HOR has a better one but try finding a pug for that...). But there are some very nice weapons - the AT one is a good starter, Rimefang's Claw is probably the best pre-raid.
econ21
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby Argali » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:22 pm

1. Tell them to watch threat, and put up marks.
2. Let them die if they pull aggro from a non marked mob.
Image
User avatar
Argali
 
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:38 am

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby nalenb » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:23 am

I'm a pretty new 80 too and I never lose threat unless a DPS is way too high too. But usually the problem comes on trash mobs and they die quickly enough anyways. On bosses I think I've lost threat only a couple times and a quick taunt pulls them right back. I did enchant my weapon for accuracy, but other than that everything is geared for defense and gemmed with stamina gems. I wouldn't worry about it unless you are wiping because of it. I figure the better dps people will watch their own threat. I don't even bother casting the Hand that reduces threat. But then again, I'm only running heroics.
Shiblon - Anvilmar
nalenb
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:47 am

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby Tantrim » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:15 am

twigss wrote:I would love to get some opinions on Holy vs. Ret as an offspec to Protection.


With a holy offspec i dont get to use my offspec in raids

I would recommend retri, simply fits in better. When fewer tanks are needed its easier to have a tank go dps.. Same when fewer healers are needed its easier to have a healer go dps. Having tanks go healing or healers go tanking just dont flow easy. Also while your prot pieces could suck for dps they'd suck even worse for holy. Not sure if the last part is of use though

Ofcourse i suck less as holy than as retri so gonna stick with holy. And the advice about asking future raid leaders in a future raid guild is probably sound
Tantrim
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:09 am

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby Arcand » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:53 am

Argali wrote:1. Tell them to watch threat, and put up marks.
2. Let them die if they pull aggro from a non marked mob.


This was a cool thing about the level 70 heroics: those guys hit hard.
If a non-tank pulled aggro, he had about three seconds to live no matter
how good the healer was. DPS learned, Skinner-style. :)

In the level 80 heroics, when they pull aggro they just have to
cast while getting beat on and the healer has to burn some mana.
The only effect is irritation, usually directed at you. Alas.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby bldavis » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:45 am

i went Ret, simply becuase it isnt always easy to find 5+ mobs to tank while you're soloing

that and it is easier for a tank to go dps, then tank to go heals and for a heals to go dps

however if your guild has some of each and what is needed each week is dependent on who is online, then by all means go holy/prot

that should ease the pressure of having to pug in a healer or tnak if you have enough of the other.
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7378
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby Shyrtandros » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:46 pm

If your having threat issue another key issue to concern yourself with is power rotation. Being a new tankadin means you may not know of / or properly operate the 9 6 9 6 9 rotation. If you don't know what this is look into it.. PM me with questions, concerns.. I have a ventrilo that we can hop on and you can pick mah brain.


As for offspec - I agree that HOLY is the 3rd wheel if your main spec is prot.

Simply put if you go holy offspec you will use it WAAAAAY LESS than using your Ret. The most common use for a successful offspec is the ability to switch in a raid.. I've been raiding content as prot/holy and I can count ONE time I switched into holy in a raid... compared to SEVERAL times I have or have had others switch to ret..

Easy explanation also.. *Common set ups but not always*
5 man = 1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps
10 man = 2 tank, 3 heal, 5 dps
25 man = 3 tank, 5 heal, 17 dps

Basicly.. (Assuming you are worthy) if you can't get into a raid as a tank you SHOULD be able to get in as a DPS much easier.
"Warning: AA posts may cause severe urges to buy or rent games you may not have been interested in, known about or would normally consider playing. If you experience sudden urges to purchase said games please consult your wallet, bank account or significant other to see if these games are right for you and your budget."
User avatar
Shyrtandros
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:54 am

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby bldavis » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:54 pm

ya dont be like me and only have half his ret gear enchanted and gemmed with mostly rare gems..... :oops:
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7378
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: Early (in tank career) TPS and offspec question

Postby greatcow95 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:24 am

To stop those pesky DPS, make a pact with your healer. Have them agree not to heal those pesky 9k Gearscore, 15k DPS DPS-ers. Either they have learned at some point how to count to 3 before doing anything or they're going to learn very quickly if the pact stays.

For my offspec--well, count me weird, because my offspec is...Protection. I'm trying to figure out a nice Prot PvP spec in addition to the standard Crusade PvE spec.
WoW is not Facebook or Myspace. Protest RealID by putting this everywhere.
greatcow95
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:06 am


Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests