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[10] Dreamwalker...

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[10] Dreamwalker...

Postby Tankforyou » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:48 pm

Hello,

We got Festergut down in 4:23, just to give an idea of our dps.

On Dreamwalker it is a wipefest. Mainly, adds are overrunning us. We run with me, a Tankadin as the only tank. After 6 minutes there are so many adds out that they are killing everyone in-sight.

Our dps on Festergut is ~6k on average per dps. Range is 4k-9k. For Dreamwalker our dps gets halfed ~2-4k.

DPS members are:
Mage
Hunter
Boomkin
Warrior
DK
Ret pally, our other tank in his off set gear

Healers are:
Holy pally, taking every portal
Resto shammy, taking every portal, chain heals off the boss
Holy Priest, divine guardian on boss. Takes no portals, raid heals. We tried resto shammy on raid heals but priest was having better luck raid healing vs taking portals and boss healing.

Questions:
1) Why is dps halved? Is that an issue or normal
2) With soft enrage is 6-8 minute window to end fight normal, or are we taking to long. Boss is usally 10-10.5 million healing (1-1.5 million more to go) when we wipe at 6 minutes.
3) Anything I'm overlooking

-Regards and thank you in advance
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Re: ICC-10 Dreamwalker...

Postby Rhiannon » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:40 pm

That healing comp looks fine - are you synching healing cds efficiently? Are the healers keeping their stacks up between portals - they should be able to keep stacks rolling from one portal to the other without dropping off. With that in mind, you should be stacking bloodlust with guardian spirit with other throughput cds (wings from paladin, +sp/haste use trinkets) in the second half of the fight when the paladin and shaman both have high stacks. 6 minutes sounds like your healing throughput is way lower than it ought to be. Our shaman was pretty much healing wave spamming the boss rather than chain healing, but that depends on your priest's raid healing and your paladin keeping beacon on Valithria whilst bombing holy lights into whoever needs them at the time.

The other thing is to ensure the suppressors are being killed quickly so they don't reduce throughput into the boss too much, by trying to tank other adds close to where they attack the boss so aoe can hit everything. The more the DPS need to move around to get to all the different adds, the lower their effective DPS time will be - but if you're getting to 6 minutes before getting overwhelmed, I'd say DPS is probably sufficient.
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Re: ICC-10 Dreamwalker...

Postby Belloc » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:50 pm

Try to eek some more HPS out of your healers. Guardian Spirit at the start and end of the fight (or as often as you can) is just freaking amazing. And make sure that your ranged are assisting whichever side gets a Blazing Skeleton.
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Re: ICC-10 Dreamwalker...

Postby hoho » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:34 am

Tankforyou wrote:1) Why is dps halved? Is that an issue or normal
Pretty sure it's not normal. What we found that helped was to tank the mobs close to the path of supressors so people didn't have to move too much to get to them and kill them before they had the chance to channel the MS for too long. Though we used two tanks, with one tank it's a "bit" complicated to do.
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Good news, everyone! We can now heal stupidity!
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby guillex » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:58 am

Is there anything in this thread that couldn't be asked in the 10/25 Dreamwalker thread, located here:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic

Just sayin'.
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby Noliquin » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:52 am

Tankforyou wrote:Hello,

We got Festergut down in 4:23, just to give an idea of our dps.

On Dreamwalker it is a wipefest. Mainly, adds are overrunning us. We run with me, a Tankadin as the only tank. After 6 minutes there are so many adds out that they are killing everyone in-sight.

Our dps on Festergut is ~6k on average per dps. Range is 4k-9k. For Dreamwalker our dps gets halfed ~2-4k.

DPS members are:
Mage
Hunter
Boomkin
Warrior
DK
Ret pally, our other tank in his off set gear

Healers are:
Holy pally, taking every portal
Resto shammy, taking every portal, chain heals off the boss
Holy Priest, divine guardian on boss. Takes no portals, raid heals. We tried resto shammy on raid heals but priest was having better luck raid healing vs taking portals and boss healing.

Questions:
1) Why is dps halved? Is that an issue or normal
2) With soft enrage is 6-8 minute window to end fight normal, or are we taking to long. Boss is usally 10-10.5 million healing (1-1.5 million more to go) when we wipe at 6 minutes.
3) Anything I'm overlooking

-Regards and thank you in advance


Sup Tank, It's Faire (the Ret pally in his offset)

So to maybe add more to the topic and maybe help see where we might have went wrong these are things I saw:

DPS members are:
Mage: normally does 8-9k (was doing about 6-7k)
Hunter: normally does 6-8k (was still doing about 6k)
Boomkin: Due to having a longer rotation and little to no true "burst" Damage we had him mainly on the aboms (they were staying up too long) and of course switching too blazing skel.
Warrior: only does about 5-6k was doing 3-4k
DK: normally 6k was doing about 4k
Ret pally, our other tank in his off set gear: I was doing about 3-4k

All and all not too bad in DPS IMO. Could be better but for a 10 man strict still not bad (other then the warrior). It's not a DPS fight it's a "Damage fight" there at the begaining (first 1-2 mins) we really wouldn't have all that much up we'd get them down really quick losing that "dps"

Looking back I think the 2 biggest mistakes were:
Healers and the lack of high stacks I don't think linds (pally) got any higher then say 28ish, could be lower. And I'm not sure about the shammy but the HPS between the Shammy and Pally was only 20k (about 10k each) IMO they should both be WAY higher then that def being 6 mins into the fight.

But I think we were leaving up the suppressors up for way too long. They'd sit there on the boss channeling for atleast 10-15 secs thats just BAD, to enough people (mainly range switching to these)

With understanding this, and having something to work on. Does anyone have any tips or advice for where to maybe try and position the adds or anything like that? Tank was awesome on the adds and only until late did we start having "control issues" (the soft enraged.

I've read through the other thread and mostly only found what we already are doing. Tanking them in the middle most everyone is staying over in the "dragon" area (other then to go nuke the blazing skel.).

I also noticed a pattern of what would adds spawn next, does anyone have any links to that kind of info? Also would it maybe be advised to put different dps assigned to each side for the supressors? (something like XT. And has anyone seen a good thread or post on advice (times) on when to take the orbs and all that for healers on this to get max stacks?

Sorry for the long post and the spelling I R frum the south. :(
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thank you

Postby Tankforyou » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:02 am

Dead (or healed as it were)
and
Thank you all for the replies

-Regards
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby Shathus » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:57 pm

We got our first attempts in on this on 10 man tonight. I'm pretty sure it was just a healing issue, but wanted to see if others could confirm, have thoughts.

Our group:

Blood DK - solo tanking
Rogue, Hunter, Warlock, Mage, Ele Shaman, Ret Pally - DPS
Disc priest - healing the raid/tank
Holy Priest and Holy Pally (me) - going into portals/healing dragon

The last couple attempts the holy priest switched to shadow, and the shaman switched to resto.

For the most part the dps were staying alive til 6 minutes, so that seemed pretty well under contol.

But our best attempt only got her healed up to 10 mil (2 mill short). We definitely had some trouble getting high enough stacks, I don't think I ever got above 25/30 all night (I swear those damn things just wouldn't break for me some tries). I was generally getting about 12-16k HPS on the attemps once I got settled into the encounter. After leaving the portals, it just felt like there was no time to actually heal the dragon, 10 secs, then back in the portals. And half the time the portals spawned on the other side of the room and had to run over there.

I fear it's just me and the other healer not managing the stacks as best we can, or is there something else glaring that we're missing?

Logs of many wipes

THanks

Edit: looking more at the logs, on our best attempt i can see where my stacks fell off, in the spike before that happened, I put out 580k healing in 30 seconds, so I would imagine, had I been able to keep the stacks up, that probably would have been enough, instead, i spent the next 90 seconds building those stacks back up and doing crap healing again. So I probably just need to L2fly better.
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby Arianne » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:13 pm

Keep the holy priest outside and send the resto shaman inside (Riptide -> HW -> HW -> CH rotation).
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby ydraw » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:29 pm

For the most part the dps were staying alive til 6 minutes, so that seemed pretty well under contol.

But our best attempt only got her healed up to 10 mil (2 mill short).


Stacks are falling off and/or DPS are not killing suppressors early enough. Make sure suppressors are prioritised immediately after blazing skeletons.

But basically this fight is all about the ability of your healers to keep their stacks. If they can do it then you'll heal her to full in around 5 minutes, when your healers have 30+ stacks.
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby Noliquin » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:44 am

I'm not sure if what we changed about our stratgey will help you all that much but here is what we changed and had a group just like yours...

It seems like your first attempts were like ours, getting close but falling short in the end... These few changed made our 6 min failed attempts into a 4 1/2 min WIN!

We switch to two tanks having one on each side tanking in the PATH OF THE SUPRESSORS!! this is key most of the time this ment melee was already close when they would spawn giving them down time on the boss...

Next we made sure the healers (pally, priest and shammy) were doing right. Pallies MUCT becon the boss, this allows them when out of the portals to help with raid healing while also healing the boss, even if its just over healing the tanks SPAM SPAM SPAM, next have the shammy do riptide and HW spam like posted before, they dont need to to worry about anything else but the boss!!! (this was the biggest win for us) Next we had the priest time out GS this was key this is a 40% buff something like that CRAZY heals, also don't waste time trying to save your Hero/bloodlust until you have like 30 stacks... do it at around 15/each and GS is on the boss, it's a wasted attempt if you hero when you just lost your stack play it safe use it "early"

The next thing is we made sure we did more then just a kill order, we made sure when Aboms died it was called out, with AoE ready (non melee) those worms are nasty and take away from healing from the boss, and kill DPS quick! We made sure not only were the mages killed but stopped from doing the frostbolt volley as much as possible. This slows healers and that could be the difference between a stack plus or loss... and those supressors are key! they can't get to the boss, Frost nova, judge justice, FROST traps! anything keep them from getting to her all together!

These are the changes we made and we went from wipe after wipe to WIN! free loots!
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby Belloc » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:39 am

By the way, a particularly skilled holy paladin could probably solo-heal the 10-man version of this boss if they managed to not let their stacks drop.

On our 25-man win last night, our holy paladin was hitting with 200k+ holy lights that were splashing 170k+ glyph of holy light heals. In other words, he was healing for damn near 400k with each heal.

Holy paladins: Keep beacons on Valithria and instruct your tanks to stand right next to her. The way the Emerald Vigor buff works will cause your glyph heals to hit for extreme amounts. Do not let your Emerald Vigor stacks ever drop!
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby Gavinas » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:59 am

Belloc wrote:By the way, a particularly skilled holy paladin could probably solo-heal the 10-man version of this boss if they managed to not let their stacks drop.


Doubt they could keep the whole raid alive while they're in the dream getting their stacks. Wouldnt be surprised if it's 2-healable though, not that there would be much point, it'll just make the encounter take longer.
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby Belloc » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:10 am

I guess I forgot to make that clarification -- I did mean that the paladin would be the only person casting heals on the boss and the only person taking portals.
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Re: [10] Dreamwalker...

Postby smiter » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:34 am

So was hoping for some advice on this one. After reading the forums I believe our guild is doing this mostly right and am wondering if the main issue is the healers not getting high enough stacks of emeral vigor. We tried about 12 attempts last night and the highest we got her was at 8million HP so still way short and this was at about 1 min from soft enrage. Our guild is fairly new as we recently merged two guilds that frequently ran together so we are all pretty familiar with each other and heals has never been a big issue in any of our raids.

All our members are around 5000-5600 GS with average prob around 5200. DPS on saurfang was not an issue. But no one in the guild has downed any bosses past Saurfang so it's a wipefest/progression raid after him.

Our first few attempts we tried the one tank approach with everyone running back and forth to the adds we found this drastically decreased dps especially for us melee. I am not sure the tank was pulling up to the boss for the beacon glyph effect from our holy pally but I think he was. the next few tries we stayed in a group and tried to let the adds come to us for less running, tank would pick up (nowhere near boss) and we would burn them down fast, this did not seem much better than the first way. The last few tries I went to off tank and picked one side adds up (including the blistering zombies which I was under the impression had to be kited but raid leader wanted to try tanking everything and burning em all with aoe). I found I had to pop bubble/cooldowns when I had multiple adds on me with worms spawning and the second round of that without bubble usually resulted in my death. We are using the blazing skeletons (worms when spawned)----->supressors---->archmages------>blistering zombies-------->aboms priority list.

We are getting the adds down fast, recount shows average DPS is just under 4K per person which is pretty good considering all the running around.

The healers said they were only getting 5-6 stacks. I saw comments in here about 30 stacks so that is where I think the problem is but I didn't want to say anything to them about it until I was sure.

Anyone see anything glaringly wrong with howwe are doing? (I realize the tank everything method is not the right way to do this). Am I right to assume the healers are not getting enough stacks? We had a tree and two-holy pally's, I believe they were sending the both pally's in to the dream state and they were beaconing the boss. Tree was taking second and fourth round of portals if we got that far.
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