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Threat on spread-out packs.

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Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby Mechas » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:32 pm

So I've been farming randoms to get ready to tank ICC for my guild (used to be the only holy paladin, now there's like 5 so now I'm the only prot paladin... for now) for about a week now. I'm getting better, and my gear is almost where I want it to be, but I've been having one specific problem: getting big packs of mobs together.

I can pick up 3 with AS, and any nearby mobs. The only issue is when there's 2 or 3 nearby that they get pulled, and I'm not the one pulling... *hint-hint*. No one's dying from it, either the dps is smart enough to kite & kill or the healer is a beast, but it's still bugging me. HoR can pick up an extra, and even if I open up with consecration they just run through (I'd normally open w/ HotR then HS, following the normal 969 swapping judge & cons depending on the situation).

So is there anything I can do here, or are the dps just trigger-happy? Armory is http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aegwynn&cn=Salaik (cloak/ legs ungemmed because I haven't gotten the chance yet), thanks for any help in advance.
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Re: Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby greatcow95 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:54 pm

Mechas wrote:I can pick up 3 with AS, and any nearby mobs. The only issue is when there's 2 or 3 nearby that they get pulled, and I'm not the one pulling... *hint-hint*.


and right there is the problem! Allow them to die fifty times and they'll hopefully see the error of their ways. Either that or just pull a massive room and then DI the healer (with giggling to follow).
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Re: Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby Mechas » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:34 pm

I don't think I was clear enough, which is my bad.
It's not like the other mobs aren't being pulled by me at all, they are. It's the situations where you have one pack, and another one is just close enough to get aggro. If it's a caster, well then I'm screwed; but if it's a melee, it'll run towards me but then get peeled off after it gets in a few shots on me.

While there are some idiots (warriors who continually charge right when I get to the pack; melee who attack the front of the mobs; etc.) for sure, I'm not willing to accept that there's nothing I can do.

So how about this: if I have 2 packs near each other, and there's no way I can aggro one but not the other, what's the general strategy for that?
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Re: Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:01 pm

Run in to the first pack and drop consecrate and HotR, throw your shield at the incoming pack. If anything in the incoming pack is a caster that you can't hit with your AS, use your HoR on that. You'll likely have to keep checking in on it until you get to where you are attacking it directly, so keep HoR available for that mob.

In the pack that is on you, if you can't trust your DPS to focus fire, then pick the person who generates the most threat and make sure you are getting hits in directly on his target. Spread hits around if you have the room threat wise, and use RD when needed. You can also stun a target that has aggro'd someone else if your taunts are on CD.
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Re: Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby Arcand » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:57 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Run in to the first pack and drop consecrate and HotR, throw your shield at the incoming pack. If anything in the incoming pack is a caster that you can't hit with your AS, use your HoR on that. You'll likely have to keep checking in on it until you get to where you are attacking it directly, so keep HoR available for that mob.

In the pack that is on you, if you can't trust your DPS to focus fire, then pick the person who generates the most threat and make sure you are getting hits in directly on his target. Spread hits around if you have the room threat wise, and use RD when needed. You can also stun a target that has aggro'd someone else if your taunts are on CD.


Large amounts of truth, but I wouldn't hit Consecration that early. Quite a few DPS watch for that and consider it an indication that "this is where we fight, this is where they die". I'd be using HotR and AS to get snap threat on the first group and silence its casters, and haul them toward the second group. Hit Consecration as soon as it'll reach all of them.
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Re: Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby nalenb » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:12 am

What I've been doing is to pull them backwards aways way out of reach of the other mobs. I announce this to the group before I do it too. H HoS was a problem for me in the room after the first boss with 3 patrols of 3. I used to try to tank the first group right where the entrance is, but the other 2 groups would eventually wander in. Now I pull the first group with AS or taunt into the tunnel. After that I'll go pull the next group. It's slower and some DPS don't want to wait, but I hate dying and I don't like chaos.

Also, it seems to me the only time I've had a mob peel away is when the DPS aren't targeting my target. I watch the healer and if they start turning red (getting hit) I'll taunt off them. Sometimes I'll do the same for the DPS.
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Re: Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby Calleana » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:36 am

The problem with heroics at the moment is that a lot of people outgear them and seem to have no consideration for those who are not in their position. This makes it a difficult learning ground, but difficult means it challenges you in ways that the hcs didn't used to. That means it can help to make you a better tank with better situational awareness as things go to chaos. Think of it as good prep for some of the trash pulls for ICC.

That particular pull has always been a pain in the ass (HoS hc) but other then taking it slowly like you are doing and pulling back, asking a hunter to MD to you while you wait around the corner or being overly aggressive, charging in before the dps can, popping cooldowns to survive all those casters & praying your healer keeps up there isn't a huge amount to do. Sometimes chaos can be a good learning tool.

When people do pull aggro from you I recommend a mod like Grid set up so it shows aggro somewhere nice and visible & then use a mouseover macro or mod like Clique so you can just move you mouse to the person with aggro and RD straight off them.
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Re: Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby Daereg » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:30 am

Save your avenger's shield for drifting casters, problem with it is, after it dazez/silences them, they usually spas out and stand there, and if you're lucky, walk a step or two in your direction(at least on deathwhisper thrash.
If you can't grab em to you, remember that you have 2 taunts, and can easily keep aggro on the far away casters for a distance using only these and your ranged abilities.
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Re: Threat on spread-out packs.

Postby Baelik » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:08 am

This probably comes with experience or mindless grinding but handling "extra" packs is a matter of reflex in a heroic. You first want to be able to tank and watch the whole picture as you do it. This way you know when a pack is going to be pulled. If you've done heroics long enough, you know exactly how the pack is going to react and you will adapt accordingly.

I know the feeling you go through, but it only is annoying when you aren't prepared. The feeling is something else when you were prepared long before it happens.

Theres a lot of things you could do to adjust, heres some ideas I get in my mind, but the list is endless if you think of all possiblities:
1. You need to have full control of the group you are currently working with. Reposition to prevent proximity pulls.
2. Tank with some portion of the camera facing next group so you can see the stray multishot arrow flying towards the next group.
3. In tight areas, save cooldowns to grab the next group once you have built a good threat lead.
4. In case of proximity pulls, pause a bit and Righteous Defense on your healer since he/she will most likely build threat on most mobs (works great for 3-4 mobs, 5+ is risky)
5. Consecrate ahead of the mobs travel path, if possible with the inner edge under your healer.
6. SoComm is your friend. Judge and ShoR become 3 hit abilities. Judge in the middle of the mob pack if out of melee range. HotR a fast moving melee pack. ShoR the add that was hit by a stray spell for the extra threat. Save AS for out of range caster. Last resort Hammer of Justice the caster out of range if AS is on CD.
7. Undead Instance brings Holy Wrath CC into play. Use it often.

TBH Blood Elf Paladins have it good in these situations because the racial, Arcane Torrent, is perfect for multiple caster scenarios.
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