Reckoning > Judgement? :/

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Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby badgermonkey » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:05 pm

A guildie of mine is currently specced 5/5 into Reckoning (He doesn't listen if anyone tries to tell him something sucks :P )

However, after a recent Icecrown 10 I noticed something. His Reckoning did more overall damage according to Recount than his Judgements did.

This is his lolspec (I won't link his Armoury, don't want this to be seen as a "lolplayer" thread, but yes, he's missing a few talent points for some reason >.<):
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sMZV0tAbugGsIufdxb


I'm just curious is that's supposed to happen, I know we're being hit more in ICC than we used to be. I'm just curious as to how/why his Reckoning did more damage over the course of the raid (therefore more threat) than his Judgements. And for reference, he was SoV the whole time, so his judgements hit at a reasonable strength.
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:20 pm

I'd like to see a log of this.
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby blakk » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:23 pm

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:I'd like to see a log of this.
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby hoho » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:01 am

Was he judging on cooldown?
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby bashef » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:19 am

If you're looking at overall damage on Recount, I can believe this because it includes monster trash packs where reckoning uptime would be very high (nothing new in that, there's no revelation).

If somehow you're excluding trash, or looking at an average of boss kills, then given how we currently view Reckoning these results--and you should provide a log if possible, otherwise it's pure anecdote--suggest either current sims and theorycrafting are broken/flawed/overlooking something (seems unlikely) or you're looking at an outlier. If enough people do enough runs, a very small percentage of them will experience results outside the norm just because that's how statistics works.
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby lythac » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:46 am

Yes trash packs most likely.

badgermonkey wrote:I'm just curious as to how/why his Reckoning did more damage over the course of the raid (therefore more threat) than his Judgements. And for reference, he was SoV the whole time, so his judgements hit at a reasonable strength.


The damage from reckoning will have a threat mulitplier of 1.43, Judgement 2.574 (?).

From this thread, using those values (-20% avoidance) and an incomming attack rate of 2 attacks/second (which 4 mobs should be able to do) Reckoning will have a 54% uptime.

From here

DPS
Jov = 336
Melee = 714
Reck = 386 (714*0.54) (the extra white attacks, not taking into consideration seal procs)

TPS
Jov = 951
Melee = 1021
Reck = 551 (1021*0.54) (the extra white attacks, not taking into consideration seal procs)

So based on much trash you end up doing and how tight your raotation is, Reckoning damage can out DPS Judgement damage. Going from his spec we can't rule out the possibility that he is isn't doing the correct rotation, lowering Judgement damage but unaffecting Reckoning damage.
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby badgermonkey » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:49 am

I'll try and pick up a log next time I'm in a raid with him, or at least SS recount afterwards (which I thought I had >.<)

Rotation might also be a factor. I'll try checking that with him and get back to you anyway. Though it looks like even if it DID outdamage Judgement, it wouldn't be any more threat anyway.
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:17 am

Also remember that his Judgements are up to 33% less effective if he doesn't have 5 HV stacks on the target, which is likely if you're tab-targetting trash (as you should be if you're tanking trash with SoV).
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby Big » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:52 am

Just to play devil's advocate here,Theck, but wouldn't reckoning suffer from not having 5 stacks of HV on the target as well, due to it being able to proc seals?

Edit: Or am I crazy and reckoning doesn't proc seals?
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby Anorian » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:57 am

Big wrote:Just to play devil's advocate here,Theck, but wouldn't reckoning suffer from not having 5 stacks of HV on the target as well, due to it being able to proc seals?

Edit: Or am I crazy and reckoning doesn't proc seals?


I'm fairly sure it does proc seals. I however miss the point of this thread, speccing into reckoning doesn't make you do less judgements or anything else different. What the point that it does more dmg than judgement, we judge for the debuffs anyway.
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby theckhd » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:20 am

Big wrote:Just to play devil's advocate here,Theck, but wouldn't reckoning suffer from not having 5 stacks of HV on the target as well, due to it being able to proc seals?

Edit: Or am I crazy and reckoning doesn't proc seals?

The reckoning melee swings wouldn't be affected. The seal procs would obviously be smaller though.

My point was that if you're doing a lot of aoe pulls with SoV, your Judgements aren't going to be doing a lot of damage. At the same time, you should be getting hit a lot, which makes Reckoning uptime high and inflating its damage contribution. It's not surprising that you can get Reckoning to out-damage Judgement in that sort of environment.

On a single-target boss encounter, it should be a completely different story though.
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Re: Reckoning > Judgement? :/

Postby Mikerk » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:37 am

Reckoning is a load of fun wearing dps gear in heroics, that combined with the quick burst of SoCom you can spike up to some impressive numbers on aoe packs
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