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Threat failing me...

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Threat failing me...

Postby Fenris » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:14 am

....and i cant understand why.

Making this short,during the last 2 weeks i started having huge problems managing threat..And with huge i mean really huge (like,not breaking into 5k tps in 5m,and not managing to reach 6k in 10m with buffs...And having hard time to reach 7k in 25m....)

Point is
a)i never had tps problems before
b)the last upgrade i did to my equipment happened well before all of this started,so nothing should have changed
c)sometimes everything seems to go on fine,sometimes the disaster happens (before someone asks,yes,RF and everything else turned on every time,following 9696 etcetcetc)

if only for the things above i could have thought of a "onixya deep breaths more" event on my part...But our dps started seeing it too :? (example,our hunter have to keep feigning way sooner that they were used to)

All this is starting to bother me way too much....But i have no clue to what has happened ,any idea?

P.s:just as a reference http://armory.wow-europe.com/character- ... Fenriswolf
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby bashef » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:27 am

Threat in 5mans, and to a lesser but noticeable extent in 10 mans, can be all over the place dependent on group buffs. List of buffs that will have noticeable effect on your threat are:

13% Magic damage taken
10% AP
Horn of Winter/Strength of Earth
5% melee crit
BoM/Battle Shout

(Excluding 10% str since you give that to yourself). You're pretty unlikely to get all of these in a 10 man; in a 5 man there's no chance. How's your threat in a 25 man? Are you having the same issues there?

If not I'd not worry about variable threat in a 10 man group, and for heroics you can just wear half ret gear and a slow 1h dps weapon.
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Fenris » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:14 am

bashef wrote:Threat in 5mans, and to a lesser but noticeable extent in 10 mans, can be all over the place dependent on group buffs. List of buffs that will have noticeable effect on your threat are:

13% Magic damage taken
10% AP
Horn of Winter/Strength of Earth
5% melee crit
BoM/Battle Shout

(Excluding 10% str since you give that to yourself). You're pretty unlikely to get all of these in a 10 man; in a 5 man there's no chance. How's your threat in a 25 man? Are you having the same issues there?

If not I'd not worry about variable threat in a 10 man group, and for heroics you can just wear half ret gear and a slow 1h dps weapon.

Problems is,it seems i've taken a threat hit in every group-size,25m too

And that keeping in mind buffs avaiable too (for 5/10m)
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby bashef » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:04 am

If you're saying that threat has dropped, across the board, it's very difficult to see why apart from the previously identified Deep Breath Syndrome!

You're sporting almost no ICC25 gear, which makes me think your stats haven't changed significantly since you've identified the threat drop. The only other things I can think of are:

  • You ran with a pocket hunter/rogue who scrupulously boosted your threat, and he got lazy or you stopped running with him
  • Your computer/connection is messed up causing you to have higher lag and not make the most of every global
  • You have in fact switched gear around recently

Honestly though, the most likely explanation is that your threat hasn't changed at all, and what you're seeing is more scaling than it is a deficiency in your own threat. DPS ramps up as gear improves, but assuming your hit/expertise stays roughly constant your only threat increase will be via strength on gear. Your real scaling comes in the form of the damage you can take, not do, and as such as dps gears up I'd expect them to ride you closer and closer on threat. Some fights threat will be important and you gear accordingly; others, it's not and you do the same. For 5 mans wear threat/dps gear, and in raids make use of tricks/MDs on the pull and thereafter you won't struggle so long as there's no weird mechanics in place.
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Fenris » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:00 pm

Something is really wrong...We did ToC25 right now,pulled Gormok with me first,asking our hunters/rogue to not use trick/md

Things didnt go well,to cut it short (hunters got aggro after few seconds...I used to keep up without problems even last time we did it),but even with MD thing would have been grim....Eck,i was stuck under 6k tps.....Full buffed...

Still cant find a rationale behind it :-/
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Eviltoon » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:38 pm

This is a legitimate issue.

Last week, we tanked ICC 25 on Friday and there were no issues with our threat. (I speak on behalf of myself and fellow Prot Paladin Guyia)

We both gained a new helm; he the 264, me the 251 tier helm. After this, however, we both tried our old helms and found the same problem (just for the sake of being thorough, I figured I'd specify this all). Yet the very next day, he and I both were tanking ToC 25 and our threat had went from roughly 10k TPS to 5k TPS. It was cut in half. We had to -fight- to get to 8k, like before we had fought to get to 12k.

We both checked gear, spec, enchants, tried to remove RF and re-apply it... and we both went into ICC 10 tonight and the same thing perpetuated throughout; our threat was cut off at the knees.

I'm glad it's not just me. I went from able to DC for ten minutes and not lose threat to fighting for it against every DPS in raid.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zon ... ame=Daraen
http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zon ... name=Guyia

Those're the tanks in question.
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Gaffer » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:02 am

I hate to chime in with absolutely no empirical data, but I felt much weaker in terms of threat than I did last week. Our DPS Feral who I almost always tank ten mans with was often having to hold attacks to not pass me in threat. I'd really appreciate it if someone could tell me that I'm being an idiot and that it's all in my head so I can go back to being frustrated by other things.
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Fenris » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:07 am

"Glad" i'm not the only one then....

As soon as i find the time to,i'll try to look at our last weeks of raid reports to see if something strange happened in the datas...
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Eviltoon » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:06 pm

And my threat is suddenly returned in full. Huh.

Same problem restored for you, Fenris?
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Arcand » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:17 pm

I half-remember a phenomenon where peoples' stats would get
set incorrectly in the game engine, as if they weren't wearing
some of their gear. The remedy was to unequip everything and
then put gear back on one piece at a time. The character
sheet numbers looked right, but for some screwy reason those
weren't the numbers the game was using in combat.


This sounds bizarre and like it shouldn't happen, but if you're
desperate for something to try, there you are. If you do figure
out the trouble, please post back so we can hear about it.
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:09 am

Also in these cases where you think something is bugged, there is not a whole lot we can do without seeing a log parse. Simply type /combatlog and your combat log will be written to a file and then you can submit it to a website like worldoflogs or wowmetersonline. Those are incredibly helpful tools for troubleshooting something like this.
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Fenris » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:46 am

Eviltoon wrote:And my threat is suddenly returned in full. Huh.

Same problem restored for you, Fenris?

Mhhh...Yesterday raid everything was working fine,more or less.....
I'll see tonight

P.s:parses there -> http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/17677/

The only thing i noticed is a larger % of miss on everything in the last putricide tries......But that could well be caused by choking gass debuffs
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Re: Threat failing me...

Postby Necrolite » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:56 pm

i made a thread on the official woweurope site at least for us EU folk, didnt really see anything there about it.

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 4183&sid=1
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