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Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

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Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Sathoris » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:19 am

Hi,

I'm trying to pull out a BiS List - or close to it - On EH gearing from ICC 25 Man (Normal) and anything below this.
(I'm Excluding the 10 Man Heroic Option of ICC for the moment)

Edit - new Spreadsheet:
Hightin-Uldaman Excel Spreadsheet for EH Gearing: http://www.filefront.com/15407355/Tank% ... rison.xlsx

Head: Sanctified Lightsworn Faceguard - Vendor 95 Emblems + Token
Neck: Bile-Encrusted Medallion - Rotface 25
Shoulder: Boneguard Commander's Pauldrons - Gunship 25
Back: Sentinel's Winter Cloak - Vendor 50 Emblems
Chest: Cataclysmic Chestguard - Vendor 95 Emblems
Wrists: Gargoyle Spit Bracers - Saurfang 10
Hands: Gauntlets of the Kraken - Vendor 60 Emblems
Waist: Verdigris Chain Belt - Vendor 60 Emblems
Pants: Pillars of Might - Blacksmith
Feet: Grinning Skull Greatboots - Valithria Dreamwalker 25

Ring 1: Devium's Eternally Cold Ring - Valithria Dreamwalker 25
Ring 2: Band of the Twin Val'kyr - Fjola Lightbane (ToGC 10 HM)
Or: Ashen Band of Endless Courage - The Ashen Verdict Exalted (Due to Proc Average it gives ~400-450 armor)

Trinket 1: Corroded Skeleton Key - Vendor 60 Emblems
Trinket 2: Sindragosa's Flawless Fang - Sindragosa 25
Or Juggernaut's Vitality Faction Champions (ToGC 25 HM)

Weapon: Burnished Quel'Serrar - Onyxia 25
Or Ardent Guard - Anub'arak (ToGC 10 HM)
Shield: Icecrown Glacial Wall - Queen Lana'thel 25

Relic: Libram of the Eternal Tower - Vendor 30 Emblems

Stats with these items and assuming a gemming of full stamina gemming, a Agi/Stam gemming to get 9 stam bonus in case of Blue/Red combo sockets, and Agi/Stam gem in the Head. Also Stam/Resil shoulder enchant, armor enchant on cloak.

Values Unbuffed

HP: 49359
Armor: 34701
Miss: 9.1818%
Dodge: 28.3352%
Parry: 21.1542%
Block: 40.9200% (HS UP)
Reached Un-hitable (ICC / Anywhere else): No / No
BV: 1699

Values Raid Buffed
HP: 61541
Armor: 39552
Miss: 9.1818%
Dodge: 31.5324%
Parry: 21.1542%
Block: 40.9200% (HS UP)
Reached Un-hitable (ICC / Anywhere else): No / Yes
BV: 2007

Values Based from loading the items into Rawr 2.3.6

Feel free to add sugetions to this list. Take in mind that the drops should be from ICC 25 / 10 man Tops (Normal Mode), accessible for people who cannot access hard modes in ICC just yet.

Previous hard modes can be includes since it's considered Old Content. (ToGC and lower)

Also thinking to pull out an Overall (Avoidance/EH/A bit of Threat mix) gear List for "Every boss tanking".situation.
Last edited by Sathoris on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Thought of EH BiS List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Wrathy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:01 am

First, You use 1 piece of T10. While I know a good deal of our community is against it, I disagree that using one is the correct assumption for BiS. Your two piece bonus is pretty good, and IMO even the 4 piece is nothing to laugh at. We have had countless discussions on that, and I will keep my opinions of the bonus to those threads.

Second, you have a 245 ring on that list. The juggernaut band is far superior to the twin val's ring. You value armor substantially, and even though that ring is nice from that stand point, it is far from BiS.

Third, with your gear set you are very low on expertise, and as theck has pointed out, it is now a very valuable stat. I would suggest picking up a few more pieces of that in lue of Armor pieces, etc. While most people would disagree with my assessment, the T10 legs are a great pick up.

Finally, and this is not directed at your very nice efforts to create a BiS List for people who want one. People need to stop asking for these arbitrary lists. They are one sided and most time incorrect for half the fights you will encounter. In general gear sets have themes, and Blizz has given you the opportunity to create three separate gear sets based off of the crap tons of gear they have created in ICC. There is a use for armor, but it is not always valuable, there is a use for Stamina, and it is always valuable, there is a use for hit and expertise, etc. The more you understand your choices of gear, the better you will be able to compile sets that will be specific for the fight.
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Re: Thought of EH BiS List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Sathoris » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:22 am

Hey,

I though of the 2pc T10 soo much while making this list and ofc the bonus is really good, but it's not an EH bonus so while making this list i though of including all the items that will sacrifice almost everything but EH and keep the Stam / Armor ratio as good as possible.

I would have a double check on the rings, but i reckon the Band of the Twin Val'kyr is a bit better EH wise then Juggernaut Band (but overall juggernaut band is better). I'll try to put Band of the Twin Val'kyr as an optional and move the exalted ring as the choice itself even though I'm a bit sceptic of the proc itself.

Expertise, ahh yes, our lovely stat from ToC. From the ICC item list the only two items that contain expertise are the Tier legs and the boots.

In order to be close to the soft cap it's needed to have both of the items (Legs and Feet) equiped from ICC wise loot table.

A quick fix (for your personal delight) will be ofcourse switching the pants to Tier 10 and with this move, you'll gain the 2set bonus + the expertise needed for being close to the soft cap.

Again I want to name that this list itself is only only EH wise, if you like to tweak it for your preferences feel free to do it.

As Wrathy pointed out, there are lots posibilities to gear up now with the variety of items that drops in ICC and the availability of Tier 10 items that are also very apealing.

I will try to make up a decent Overall (Balanced) gear list for people who wants to use it as a gearing reference.
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Reference of Balanced Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Sathoris » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:23 am

After making a list of EH Gear that from my PoV could be a BiS EH List I've though to make an all in all (overall) good for 90% of the bosses where no special gimmicks are required. I like to call this Balanced ICC Set.

I'll still keep the same restriction as no items from heroic modes of ICC as those cannot be aquired yet, but I'll include previous content Heroic modes are they are trivialized with the new gear as we speak. Also I'll try to offer an alternative to the Old Content Heroic drops if there are any.

Head: Sanctified Lightsworn Faceguard - Vendor 95 Emblems + Token
Neck: Bile-Encrusted Medallion - Rotface 25
Shoulder: Boneguard Commander's Pauldrons - Gunship 25
Back: Cairne's Endurance - Tribute Chest ToGC 25 Insanity
Or Sentinel's Winter Cloak - Vendor 50 Emblems
Chest: Sanctified Lightsworn Chestguard - Vendor 95 Embles + Token
Wrists: Bracers of Dark Reckoning - Lord Marrowgar 25
Hands: Taldaram's Plated Fists - Prince Valanar 25
Waist: Belt of Broken Bones - Festergut 25
Legs: Pillars of Might - Blacksmithing
Feet: Grinning Skull Greatboots - Valithria Dreamwalker 25

Ring 1: Devium's Eternally Cold Ring - Valithria Dreamwalker 25
Ring 2: Juggernaut Band - Lord Deathwhisper 25

Trinket 1: Corroded Skeleton Key - Vendor 60 Emblems
Trinket 2: Juggernaut's Vitality Faction Champions (ToGC 25 HM)
Or Sindragosa's Flawless Fang - Sindragosa 25

Weapon: Orgrim's Deflector - Tribute Chest ToGC 25 Man - 25 Tries
Or Last Word - Professor Putricide 25
Shield: Shield: Icecrown Glacial Wall - Queen Lana'thel 25

A quick review of this Gear list:

- Use of 2pc T10 Bonus
- Use of Stack Stam items
- Use a mix of avoidance / armor items

Comming Soon a 25 Man Heroic Items Included List
Last edited by Sathoris on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thought of EH BiS List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Wrathy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:57 am

Sathoris wrote:Expertise, ahh yes, our lovely stat from ToC. From the ICC item list the only two items that contain expertise are the Tier legs and the boots.

In order to be close to the soft cap it's needed to have both of the items (Legs and Feet) equiped from ICC wise loot table.


The chest you linked for your EH set actually also has 82 expertise on it. While there is one more piece that I will be wearing in my EH set (gloves from 10 man hard mode), since it was a HM loot, I did not bother to mention it. You can get 51 expertise from these four pieces.
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Gaffer » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:16 am

Your EH listing is nearly the exact same as what I've listed as my desire gearing going into heroics with the only difference being the weapon (hopefully, I'll be snagging a tier 2 Wrathful weapon pending stats). I've also considered swapping in a few higher expertise pieces, but haven't had an opportunity to read all of Theck's findings and compare gain/loss in specific slots.

I can't imagine caring about our 2pc bonus (though, obviously, I'll have it around as emblems come in) since I have yet to have threat issues. Pending any gimmick fights, I don't see any popping up. Am I missing something else that makes this set bonus so good?
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Hightin-Uldaman » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:46 pm

I spent my weekend working on a spreadsheet to rank gear based on EH and calculate current EH and EH gain by switching a piece out. I've got it up and running but I didn't add the heroic ToC or ICC gear into it yet though thats about all I need to do still. I'll find a place to host it and get it up for input soon.

I also haven't decided if I want to update it to reflect for warriors as well. Any input would be helpful. This is strictly to calculate EH (Not including talented damage reduction effects).
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Hightin-Uldaman » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:52 am

http://www.filefront.com/15389013/Tank% ... rison.xlsx

Okay finally finished it after testing it with a buddy of mine. Both warrior and pally versions are working. This is an excel format Ill work on getting an OpenOffice version up and running though I hate it so who knows when that will be. I started working on this because #1 I hate open office and couldn't get the tankadin spreadsheet working in excel, I know this doesn't have the threat features, and #2 I wanted a easy access good EH comparison.

What will this do?
Calculate EH and what pieces equate to what EH. Show avoidance values (some are a tiny bit off because I cant figure out how/where the game is rounding yet).

What wont this do?
Show your threat, calculate BV (Yet). Anything to do with procs IE weapon enchants & trinket procs (Yet).

Known issues:
Rankings: if two pieces have the same EH it will error on the 2nd piece. Im working on adjusting the ranking system to calculate threat stats based on theck's numbers to rank gear by EH then threat so two pieces shouldn't match.

Use: In col B row 1 select race and row 2 select class. Down in Col B is the gear/enchants/gems selections. In the bottom right is the available loot list adjust this to adjust the EH rankings to show for like ToC 25H and so on. The Other option is 5 man loot and player made loot.

Would love to get some people using it and checking their stats to make sure its accurate I only tested it with 3 pallies and 2 warriors so far and figuring out where the game is rounding stuff off has been... fun.

The front page was roughly taken from the rogue sheets developed by Aldriana from EJ (with permission of corse) as I was too busy working on the math to figure out my own layout.
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Sathoris » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:55 am

I played a bit with your spreadsheet and surprisingly my EH list was the best you could get :). The spreadsheet itself couldn't find a better upgrade in any slot for the Raid dificulty I've set for this gear list.

Results:

EH: 183.932
AD EH: 196.805

Also what i've saw in your spreadsheet, the Twins 10 man HM Ring is 2nd in the list, above the Ashen Exalted ring and Juggernaut Band which is the same I though, i'll updated my post for this.

I think you should look a bit at the gear list as the filter doesn't work properly. For example I've removed the loot from ICC 10 HM and i still saw the boots "Scourge Fanged Stompers (Heroic)" in the list.
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Hightin-Uldaman » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:31 am

Theres no way to remove items from the drop down list themself... maybe I might have just thought of a way though I'm gonna have to take a look it I'm right its gonna be a pain in the ass, I'll look into it tonight. The filter is so it wont compare for EH values in the Suggestions section.
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Sathoris » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:36 am

Another sugestion to the spreadsheet might be to the improve the "sugestion" part. The way i though this would be nice to have is having a hyperlink or anything that you can click on the item itself and it will automatically be selected from the dropdown list so you can easily flick through the sugestions (top 3 or so) to check your stats or so.
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Hightin-Uldaman » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:06 pm

Hmm hadn't thought about that not sure how to do that in excel if its even possible. I'll look into it though.
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Hightin-Uldaman » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:39 am

Test this one out. I adjusted the ranking system slightly. It is right now set to #1 EH and then #2 TPS (Based on thecks latest numbers). Basically on a handful of slots that have the same EH value there was issues with the ranking system only assigning one rank. Best example was the boots both the player made and ICC 25 drops were the same EH so both were ranked #1 so you only saw 1 not both. Now it will rank the items based off EH which you see the difference then TPS (you wont see the difference) where EH isnt enough to determine the difference.

Known Issue: Armor values might be off by 1 point. I can't figure out if the games rounding the decimals off or rounding them up. This issue has very very very little to do with the armor rate so it shouldnt be noticable. IF you do see a difference please let me know.

I hope to have this worked through (waiting to get more warrior testing done) by the end of the weekend. I'll write up a seperate post when thats finished.

http://www.filefront.com/15402383/Tank% ... rison.xlsx


Edit: Okay I just realized I didn't fill in block value... I'll get that in there sometime this weekend.
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Sathoris » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:14 am

Thanks for the fix, I've updated my 1st post to include your latest spreadsheet.
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Re: Reference of EH Gear List for 3.3 25 Man (Non-Heroic)

Postby Hightin-Uldaman » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:01 pm

http://www.filefront.com/15407355/Tank% ... rison.xlsx

Has block value in it now. Will be the final version for a while unless someone finds a major issue.
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