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3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:43 pm

blakk wrote:How many entry level tanks are raiding ICC?

I didn't mean entry level in terms of tank gear level. I meant entry level in terms of theorycrafting and readability.

One can tank ICC without an intricate knowledge of Reckoning mechanics, as long as you know that it's good if you get hit a lot and bad if you don't.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby blakk » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:49 pm

theckhd wrote:
blakk wrote:How many entry level tanks are raiding ICC?

I didn't mean entry level in terms of tank gear level. I meant entry level in terms of theorycrafting and readability.

One can tank ICC without an intricate knowledge of Reckoning mechanics, as long as you know that it's good if you get hit a lot and bad if you don't.

yeah I forget how easy content is :/
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:06 pm

blakk wrote:yeah I forget how easy content is :/

Well, to be fair, I don't think there's ever been a time when a tank needed intricate knowledge of Reckoning mechanics to tank anything successfully. :P
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby blakk » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:31 pm

theckhd wrote:
blakk wrote:yeah I forget how easy content is :/

Well, to be fair, I don't think there's ever been a time when a tank needed intricate knowledge of Reckoning mechanics to tank anything successfully. :P

true
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Thaelarion » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:43 am

I've read your MATLAB analysis post regarding (ICC) specs, but it's left me with a question. My guild is raiding non-ICC raids more than ICC raids at the moment, due to signups and such. I quote you:

Theckhd wrote:As a general rule of thumb for maximizing threat, fill points in the following order:
OHWS, Divine Strength, and TbtL before anything else.
For DUH mobs, Crusade > SotP > Reckoning > Conviction
For non-DUH mobs, SotP > Crusade > Reckoning > Conviction.


My usual spec is 0/53/18, consisting of 3/5 Conviction and 3/3 Crusade. I have 1/1 Divine Sacrifice and 2/2 Divine Guardian, but 0/5 in Reckoning.

My question is, in short, if I want to stick to one overall MTing build, for use in both ICC and outside ICC, should I still get Reckoning?

I don't want to under perform (in ICC) by not taking it, but I also don't want to take the extra risk of losing Divine Sacrifice and Divine Guardian. I'm a bit lost here.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Candiru » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:48 am

Just one more reason why imp.lay on hands is not a good idea, with the current mechanics of it being -20% damage taken rather than an armour boost it no-longer stacks with inspiration / ancestral guidance. This makes it only a -20% reduction instead of a -10% reduction which is a bit rubbish for its long CD. It also might prevent inspiration from landing during its duration (needs testing) which would then create some time period after it runs out of no reduction which is worse than if you hadn't used it at all.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:50 am

Reckoning is for pure threat generation only, and it's only decent in ICC. You won't be penalized for not getting it.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Thaelarion » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:55 am

Currently I'm not struggling with threat, so I suppose I don't need Reckoning. I think I'll stay with my Divine Sac and Guardian then, thank you for the answer. There's one more question I have though, which I've had for a while.

I'm considering dropping 2 points from Conviction (3/5 -> 1/5) for Pursuit of Justice. Looking at the analysis, Conviction is currently our weakest threat talent, so it shouldn't be that bad, should it?
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:00 am

Not at all. I don't have any points in it in my raid spec, and I comfortably outthreat ToGC25 geared players.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Thaelarion » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:04 am

That's a great relief to hear. May I ask where you put that last talent then? Seal of Command, or elsewhere?
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Njall » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:06 am

Thaelarion wrote:Currently I'm not struggling with threat, so I suppose I don't need Reckoning. I think I'll stay with my Divine Sac and Guardian then, thank you for the answer. There's one more question I have though, which I've had for a while.

I'm considering dropping 2 points from Conviction (3/5 -> 1/5) for Pursuit of Justice. Looking at the analysis, Conviction is currently our weakest threat talent, so it shouldn't be that bad, should it?


I'm probably going to bite the bullet and respec. Don't know about Reckoning but I think I"ll pick up Seal of Cleave just for the fun value - and maybe for the spot-threat for certain pulls. Its not useful for long-lived trash but getting the attention of certain mobs has been a problem at times.

Besides, I'd like to see a bit of burst from time to time. Steady erosion of my enemy's lifeforce can be like watching the tide come in. :D No, I've already got a healing spec, thanks.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Thaelarion » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:11 am

I just respecced to 0/5 Conviction, 1/1 Seal of Command and kept my 3/3 Crusade and got 2/2 Pursuit of Justice.
Think I might stick to this for raiding as well, instead of putting 1 point into Conviction.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:31 am

I highly recommend Seal of Command nowadays. I was skeptical at first, as many of you might remember, but it's now a pretty significant threat boost while AoE tanking.

The real reason I've changed my mind on it, though, is that I now view it as a tool. It's better for snap threat and sustained threat on multiple mobs, so it's an ability we want in our toolbox to help pick up adds. Blizzard has helped this along by making multiple-add-tanking part of the early Icecrown encounters (Deathwhisper and Gunship) and making a daily heroic clear for frost badges part of our "progression content." So not only do we have a tool, we actually have a lot of occasions to use it.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Njall » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:44 am

theckhd wrote:I highly recommend Seal of Command nowadays. I was skeptical at first, as many of you might remember, but it's now a pretty significant threat boost while AoE tanking.

The real reason I've changed my mind on it, though, is that I now view it as a tool. It's better for snap threat and sustained threat on multiple mobs, so it's an ability we want in our toolbox to help pick up adds. Blizzard has helped this along by making multiple-add-tanking part of the early Icecrown encounters (Deathwhisper and Gunship) and making a daily heroic clear for frost badges part of our "progression content." So not only do we have a tool, we actually have a lot of occasions to use it.


Yes, I bit the bullet and respec'd to it. And yes, I'll get the damned Glyph of Cleave as soon as I remember. Didn't take any Reckoning as I wanted to keep my RaidWall. Wast that wise? Going to have to rethink my healing spec as well. Too much ret and not enough of the Raid Wall. :D

And I think you just like saying the word "tool." Tool. Tool. Tool. Heh heh.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:51 am

Njall wrote:And yes, I'll get the damned Glyph of Cleave as soon as I remember.

I wouldn't bother with the glyph unless you're running into mana problems. I'm usually too lazy to replace the SoV glyph every time I switch seals, but if I was going to bother I'd probably replace it with Judgement.

Njall wrote:Didn't take any Reckoning as I wanted to keep my RaidWall. Wast that wise?

That's how I spec for progression. I only take Reckoning if I know I won't be raiding for a solid chunk of time and will thus only be doing heroics (like over the holiday break).
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