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Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:54 am

3.3 Enchant/Food Analysis

This is similar to the stat analysis, in that I calculate how much TPS each point of a given stat gives you, and then just do some simple multiplication. Mongoose and Berserking uptimes are calculated as in the above post, which with the default gear set and raid buffs works out to be about 40%.

Setup:
Rotation: 969
Seals: SoV
Glyphs: V
Talents: 1V+3C
Gear: T10 Progression Set for food, slightly updated gear set for enchants.
File: calc_enchants.m

Note: It's recently been determined that Mongoose is only a 30 hast rating buff rather than a full 2%. I've updated the plot here to reflect that, using an updated gear set. I've re-written the text to reflect the current state, but keep in mind that the gear set is slightly higher ilvl than the one used for everything else.

Also note that the code is suggesting Mongoose uptimes of 37% or so. There have been reports of observed uptimes of around 20-25%, which would drop it's value even further. At 20%, it's barely better than the 26 Agility enchant for threat.

Code: Select all
Enchant        DPS  TPS
Berserking      61  144
Accuracy        51  120
Ti Weap Chain   41   98
Potency         27   64
Mongoose        29   63
SuPotency       27   62
GrPotency       20   48
26 Agi          14   31

Image
With the change to PPM-based enchants, Mongoose loses some ground once again. It's now only as good as the BC-era Potency enchant. Accuracy still holds the title for best threat enchant for tanking progression content. Save Berserking for your max-DPS heroic set.


Code: Select all
Food                    DPS TPS
Dragonfin Fillet        57  136
Snapper Extreme         55  132
Fish Fillet             42  101
Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak  32   74
Blackened Dragonfin     22   51

Image
This graph has become really volatile with the 3.3 changes. Depending on your hit rating, expertise rating, and Strength, any of three foods can claim to be top dog. In the default gear set (160 hit rating and 82 expertise rating from gear), Dragonfin fillet retains it's crown. But if you lower hit rating, Snapper Extreme passes it, and if you drop below 22 expertise Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak passes both of them.

For future reference, if you set the default gear set to 0 hit rating and 0 expertise rating, here's what you get:
Code: Select all
Food                    DPS TPS
Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak  68  156
Snapper Extreme         55  132
Dragonfin Fillet        52  126
Fish Fillet             39   95
Blackened Dragonfin     21   46


TLDR Summary:
  • Accuracy is still the best threat enchant, and helps with taunts
  • Mongoose got nerfed a bit in 3.3. It's now average at best, and arguably only on-par with the 26 agility enchant if reports about its uptime are correct.
  • Food is now trickier if you're going to min/max:
    • Rhino Wyrmsteak if you're below 22 expertise, or
    • Snapper Extreme if you're below 100 hit rating or just want extra hit, or
    • Dragonfin Fillet if you're in the 150+ hit rating bracket
Last edited by theckhd on Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Arees » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:20 am

theckhd wrote:[*]Mongoose got nerfed a bit in 3.3, but is still the only enchant that provides EH.


I have a quick question about that. I know that normally heals are not counted as EH... but, since we have AD, can't the heal from blood draining be considered EH since as long as AD hasn't procced yet, we will always gets the heal, adding that much to our life?

Meaning that (not including DR effects) to kill us, something would have to do 130% our hp in damage + the amount of healing we got from however many stacks of blood draining.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:53 am

3.3 Glyph Analysis

To calculate the TPS of a glyph, we run the simulation with and without the glyph, and subtract to find the difference it made in overall TPS. Nothing fancy here.

Setup
Rotation: 969, JsA for A
Seals: SoV
Glyphs: V, J, or A alone, as compared to unglyphed
Talents: 1V+3C build, on a "no-DUH" mob type
Gear: T10 Progression Set
File: calc_glyphs.m

Code: Select all
Glyph    TPS
J         85
V        314
A        204

Image

The change to ShoR has dramatically increased the lead SoV had over the competition, beating out AS as our top threat glyph. <edit> Thanks to Gil, who caught an error in the result. The SoV glyph is only tops if you're below the expertise soft-cap of 26. If you're at 23 or higher without the glyph, then AS is a slightly bigger TPS increase. In either case, the SoV glyph beats out Judgement until you reach about 31.

TLDR version:
  • SoV is our best threat glyph for tanking up until around 23 expertise without the glyph.
  • If you like the AS glyph for extra threat on the pull, use it as your third glyph.
  • If you're at 31+ expertise without the SoV glyph active, Judgement is your best choice for an always-on threat glyph
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:09 am

theckhd wrote:It's still the best thing we have if you're hit-capped, but the Weapon Chain reclaims the title for best threat enchant for tanking progression content.

Should say Accuracy.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:12 am

WATERBOYsh wrote:I have a quick question about that. I know that normally heals are not counted as EH... but, since we have AD, can't the heal from blood draining be considered EH since as long as AD hasn't procced yet, we will always gets the heal, adding that much to our life?

Meaning that (not including DR effects) to kill us, something would have to do 130% our hp in damage + the amount of healing we got from however many stacks of blood draining.


Healing is not strictly considered EH, as you noted.

However, Blood Draining is a weird beast. For one thing, it will always proc only when you actually need a heal. Generally this will happen when AD procs, meaning that you'll get the AD heal plus the BD heal (I think anyway - can anyone confirm that it happens in this order? If you got the BD heal first and then AD healed you to 30%, that would effectively make BD a waste for us). That adds a little buffer zone of extra health after a near-death experience. So from that standpoint, it certainly is more damage you can take before dying. But if AD is down, then it won't save you from a one-shot scenario (say 40%-0% with AD down), which is why I'd say it doesn't really count as EH.

That's not to say it's a bad enchant. I still think it's a strong defensive option (stronger than Blade Warding in any event). It just doesn't fit nicely into the existing standard definition of Effective Health since it's a bit abnormal.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:13 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:
theckhd wrote:It's still the best thing we have if you're hit-capped, but the Weapon Chain reclaims the title for best threat enchant for tanking progression content.

Should say Accuracy.

Thanks, I apparently somehow CTRL+Z-ed an extra half-sentence I wrote in there. Fixed now.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Kriskringle » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:26 am

theckhd wrote:Mongoose got nerfed a bit in 3.3, but is still the only enchant that provides EH.


+26 Agi provides EH! In addition, one might make the argument that Mongoose doesn't provide EH since it doesn't have 100% uptime (or even a near-100% uptime). I don't feel like championing that claim (I think it has already been discussed on these boards at least once), but my general sense is that an unreliable EH stat doesn't count towards base EH.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:40 am

Kriskringle wrote:+26 Agi provides EH! In addition, one might make the argument that Mongoose doesn't provide EH since it doesn't have 100% uptime (or even a near-100% uptime). I don't feel like championing that claim (I think it has already been discussed on these boards at least once), but my general sense is that an unreliable EH stat doesn't count towards base EH.

You're right, I forgot about 26 Agi. I've updated the text to mention this and compare the two a little more carefully.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby towelliee » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am

I posted this on the tanking forum concerning the Mongoose Proc nerfs.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 6563&sid=1

Maybe with some support the Blues can confirm our findings and explain. Would this mean that Paladin tanks have always had more uptime on Mongoose than Warriors?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby honorshammer » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:48 am

How much armor do you get out of 24 agi consider 120 agi (mongoose) only gives 244 armor, it can't be much.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby lythac » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:57 am

26 agi gives 57.2 armor with kings.

Mongoose proc gives 264 armor with kings.
Hit/Exp capped 110.9 on average
0 Hit/Exp 89.8 on average.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:31 am

Lythac wrote:26 agi gives 57.2 armor with kings.

Mongoose proc gives 264 armor with kings.
Hit/Exp capped 110.9 on average
0 Hit/Exp 89.8 on average.


I included the 10% bonus from Toughness.
120 agi * 1.1 (kings) * 2 (agi->armor) * 1.1 (Toughness) = 290.4 ~ 290
26 * 1.1 * 2 * 1.1 = 62.92 ~ 63

I haven't seen any conclusive testing either way on whether Toughness boosts the armor from agility though (or if I have, I don't remember it). I asked here, but never got an answer.

It should be very easy to check though, as Toughness is our only armor-multiplier talent:
1) Get nekkid (optional, but probably easier this way), equip a mongoose weapon, melee dummy in prot spec until you get a mongoose proc. Observe armor value before and after.
2) Repeat in ret or holy dual-spec.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Oldpappa » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:40 am

Theck - doesn't Blade Ward give threat or didn't it even register to make the list?

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Flex » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:44 am

theckhd wrote:1) Get nekkid (optional, but probably easier this way), equip a mongoose weapon, melee dummy in prot spec until you get a mongoose proc. Observe armor value before and after.
2) Repeat in ret or holy dual-spec.


Step two isn't needed. If you get 264 Armor Toughness affects it, if you get 240 armor it doesn't.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:45 am

Oldpappa wrote:Theck - doesn't Blade Ward give threat or didn't it even register to make the list?

Thanks

It does, but it's a real beast to model. I'm actually working on that now, and should have a post up on why it's a beast to model along with some results. Provided they make sense, it'll give me some values I can use to include it in the Enchant analysis.
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