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3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:29 am

Chasey wrote:I guess my only question is, if you cancel Divine sacrifice, Divine Guardian is still going to be active. This is the first I've heard that, mabye because....I have looked into a whole lot but this is goiong to be great.

This is a recent change, take a look at the patch notes for 3.3 if you want to see Blizzard's exact wording.

The fact that it will work properly with a /cancelaura macro is speculation at this point, but you can bet that it's the first thing I'm going to do when I log on tonight. ;)
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:24 pm

FYI, I just checked and Divine Guardian does indead remain if you right click off Divine Sacrifice.

However, my macro wasn't successfully removing DSac itself with /cancelaura.

The best I was able to come up with so far is:
Code: Select all
#show
/cast Divine Sacrifice
/in 0.5 /script CancelUnitBuff("player","Divine Sacrifice")

Which cancels Divine Sac half a second after you cast it. I wasn't able to get it working for /in 0.2, so my guess is that the lower limit will be your server latency, since mine hovers around 300ms.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Chasey » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:09 am

theckhd wrote:FYI, I just checked and Divine Guardian does indead remain if you right click off Divine Sacrifice.

However, my macro wasn't successfully removing DSac itself with /cancelaura.

The best I was able to come up with so far is:
Code: Select all
#show
/cast Divine Sacrifice
/in 0.5 /script CancelUnitBuff("player","Divine Sacrifice")

Which cancels Divine Sac half a second after you cast it. I wasn't able to get it working for /in 0.2, so my guess is that the lower limit will be your server latency, since mine hovers around 300ms.


Thanks for the reply. Overall 20% damage reduction is still worth it.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby genretty » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:31 pm

I am hoping someone here can assist me with the math as to which is better and why. My spec is almost identical to core (plus addiitonal talents on Ret). However the one main difference is that I have 3 points in Reckoning instead of 3 points in Divine Sacrifice/Divine Guardian.

I haven't seen any theory crafting as to the advantages/disadvantages of these two. Can someone provide some guidance or direction?

With the 3 points you have a 6% change of that the next 4 weapon swings will generate an additional attack". While 6% is not great, this should increase aggro generation as well as dps. DS/DG looks to be talent that take damage away from the group and places it on the tank. DG looks to mitigate more group damage as well as a nice benefit for Sacred Shield. Overall, and this is probably just me, it seems like the additional aggro and dps would be better when compared to the party wide min mitigation and the increase in Sacred Shield duration.

What am I missing?
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Alixander » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:28 pm

genretty wrote:With the 3 points you have a 6% change of that the next 4 weapon swings will generate an additional attack". While 6% is not great, this should increase aggro generation as well as dps. DS/DG looks to be talent that take damage away from the group and places it on the tank. DG looks to mitigate more group damage as well as a nice benefit for Sacred Shield. Overall, and this is probably just me, it seems like the additional aggro and dps would be better when compared to the party wide min mitigation and the increase in Sacred Shield duration.

What am I missing?
This is pretty spot on. The real question is: Do you raid? If the answer is yes, then odds are the small boost (and that's what it is) in threat generation from Reckoning doesn't compare to the application of a raid wide 20% damage reduction. You can macro Divine Sacrifice (when you have Divine Guardian) so that the DS is removed while DG effects everyone.

If you want numbers for Reckoning (though they'd be for 3.2), there around here somewhere. I know Theck did them so do a bit of searching through the Advanced forum.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:44 pm

The Reckoning theorycraft is in the Matlab TPS guide, under the Talent section.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby blakk » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:01 pm

I think the conviction section needs to be revised as currently it says it is better than reckoning flat out. It should say it's better than reckoning unless you are tanking aoe trash or a boss that swings quickly and therefore procs reckoning more often.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:46 pm

blakk wrote:I think the conviction section needs to be revised as currently it says it is better than reckoning flat out. It should say it's better than reckoning unless you are tanking aoe trash or a boss that swings quickly and therefore procs reckoning more often.

Actually, that's not even true. For ICC, Reckoning is a better investment. I've fixed the description.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby steadypal » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:10 am

so theck



if we spec 2/2 imp guardian, it is 20% DR to the party or the entire raid?


and i dont have to bubble at all anymore right? even when tanking, just hit that macro, and entire raid takes 20% less dmg?
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Epimer » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:49 am

steadypal wrote:if we spec 2/2 imp guardian, it is 20% DR to the party or the entire raid?


Sorry to be blunt, but did you even read the tooltip of the talent? "When Divine Sacrifice is actived, your party and raid members within 30 yards take 20% reduced damage for 6 sec."
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby blakk » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:54 pm

theckhd wrote:
blakk wrote:I think the conviction section needs to be revised as currently it says it is better than reckoning flat out. It should say it's better than reckoning unless you are tanking aoe trash or a boss that swings quickly and therefore procs reckoning more often.

Actually, that's not even true. For ICC, Reckoning is a better investment. I've fixed the description.

But for pre-icc bosses wouldn't conviction still beat reckoning?
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:11 pm

blakk wrote:But for pre-icc bosses wouldn't conviction still beat reckoning?

Yeah, by a bit. The change from a 2s boss swing speed to a 1s swing speed makes a lot of difference in that talent.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby blakk » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:57 pm

That's what I was eluding to in my previous post. Reckoning is better in icc for two reasons. Lower avoidance and faster boss swings. I just thought it would be more thorough if the guide explained when reckoning becomes better than conviction. I know it doesn't make much difference for most tanks because they will choose ds/dg over threat.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:14 pm

blakk wrote:That's what I was eluding to in my previous post. Reckoning is better in icc for two reasons. Lower avoidance and faster boss swings. I just thought it would be more thorough if the guide explained when reckoning becomes better than conviction. I know it doesn't make much difference for most tanks because they will choose ds/dg over threat.


Fair enough, when I get some time I'll add a more thorough clarifcation of that. I'm just hesitant to make the guide too detailed since it's supposed to be an "entry level" guide.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby blakk » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:18 pm

theckhd wrote:
blakk wrote:That's what I was eluding to in my previous post. Reckoning is better in icc for two reasons. Lower avoidance and faster boss swings. I just thought it would be more thorough if the guide explained when reckoning becomes better than conviction. I know it doesn't make much difference for most tanks because they will choose ds/dg over threat.


Fair enough, when I get some time I'll add a more thorough clarifcation of that. I'm just hesitant to make the guide too detailed since it's supposed to be an "entry level" guide.

How many entry level tanks are raiding ICC?
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