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single button tanking?

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single button tanking?

Postby nivx » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:12 pm

/castsequence Holy Shield, Hammer of the Righteous, Judgement of Wisdom, Shield of Righteousness, Consecration

I just conjoined the 969 rotational macros. This is the outcome. I never stop pressing the button so there is no downtime between moves.

optimal for bosses?
suggestions?
Your guys' thoughts?
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Invisusira » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:18 pm

No no no no no.

/castsequence Shield of Righteousness, Hammer of the Righteous

Acceptable for the "six" half of your rotation.

The rest? Too specific and situational to not have on their own keybinds. Don't be a bad.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Raivnor » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:22 pm

The real question when talking about a single button macro for pally tanking is: Why?

For a regular 969 rotation you need 5 buttons. Is there anything that you need so badly that you need to free up the other 4? Is learning how to press a sequence of 5 buttons so difficult that only a paladin of insane genius could master it? Will showing off your single button macro somehow make you more attractive to the opposite sex? The answer to all these questions is absolutely not.

If anything, a single button macro makes tanking not only less fun, but also less effective. A person using the single button will generate exactly the same threat as the person who has mastered the rotation, but they will also be less prepared for extraordinary situations. And being prepared for extraordinary situations is what tanking is really about. If our job could be done by a monkey pressing a big red button every 1.5 seconds, then there wouldn't be such a short queue for tanks in the random dungeon tool, would there?
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Baelik » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:09 pm

I recently tried two button tanking and I think there is a place for its use. For me both the buttons are mapped onto extra buttons on the mouse so I can pretty much do my rotation, run a figure 8 and control the camera angle in any way I want. This is pretty handy for fights when I'm full on mana and need to be mobile. This all feels funky for a 3 year keyboard turner like me.

Heres what I can think:

Advantages:
- No overhead in looking at your action bars for a new tank, one stop for it all
- No awkward finger movements to find all the keys of your rotation while moving
- It is unlikely that you will lapse on our optimal rotation if you just have to click 2 buttons

Disadvantages:
- When close to oom, abilities for which you don't have mana will pause your sequence. Though, I'm sure this a scripting way around it.
- Loss of flexibilty. Sometimes I just like to change the sequence of my actions to fit the mobs around me. Or skip consecrate when I feel I'll be going oom.

It feels more like auto pilot when your mind needs to be focused elsewhere on the raid. Tho I think I'll stick to single button per ability rotation for heroics when I need more control.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Meloree » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:31 pm

nivx wrote:/castsequence Holy Shield, Hammer of the Righteous, Judgement of Wisdom, Shield of Righteousness, Consecration

I just conjoined the 969 rotational macros. This is the outcome. I never stop pressing the button so there is no downtime between moves.

optimal for bosses?
suggestions?
Your guys' thoughts?


This is only the first 5 abilities of a properly executed 969 rotation. The next 7 are: HotR, HS, ShoR, JoW, HotR, Cons, ShoR. You need to put all of those in the macro to make it a properly executed 969.

I don't particularily recommend 1-button tanking, though. I, personally, use 2 macros (6s and 9s), as well as keybinding all the individual abilities for situational usage. Unlike most of the posters above me, I don't see a problem in simplifying the task, and I don't think it leaves you either less prepared or less flexible, so long as you're comfortable breaking out of the macros when necessary. I'm no better at threat by using 2 buttons than I was by using 4 or 5, I'm no worse. But it is easier to concentrate on other things - like managing the fight in progress. I might just be one of the bads, though.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby kanst » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:48 pm

Here is the way i think of it, you get stunned for 3 seconds, the stun fades what ability do you hit? The macro doesnt do it right, it requires you to see whats going on and decide. Thats why I dont use a macro
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:24 am

I use a 6 and 9 macro as well (though Judgement is not on my 9 macro). I use a keybind override, so I can cast any of the skills on them at will, in case something were to happen to interrupt the normal rotation.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:32 am

I don't even macro a 6s side because on single targets i'd rather do ShoR first and on aoe i'd rather to HotR first. Though our rotation is the simplest to quantify, it's still not optimal. Or even good, if you have to deal with oddball situations.


And if you rely on that macro, your rotation stops being thourghless and you'll hit the oddball with your pants down.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby ulushnar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:39 am

I macro my 6 abilities, but I'd never macro my 9s. Consecration's too much of a mana hog to use blindly. I just have my "6" macro on 1, holy shield on 2, judgement on 3, and consecration on 4, then the dance becomes 1,2,1,3,1,4, repeat until mana low or mob dead.

Besides, I had enough of one-button macro'd rotations during my time as a Hunter in TBC.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:53 am

nivx wrote:/castsequence Holy Shield, Hammer of the Righteous, Judgement of Wisdom, Shield of Righteousness, Consecration

I just conjoined the 969 rotational macros. This is the outcome. I never stop pressing the button so there is no downtime between moves.

optimal for bosses?
suggestions?
Your guys' thoughts?

As Meloree pointed out, that macro doesn't perform 969.

I don't personally use macros for my 969 because I'm always clamoring for more key bindings and don't have extras to spare. Since there are many cases where I want to modify my rotation, and I need the 5 abilities bound anyway, it's just simpler for me to do it manually.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Kiorken » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:16 am

I stop at 2 button tanking. Also, don't be a fool and rely on it. Sure, 90 percent of most fights, I am literally, mouse4,mouse5,mouse4,mouse5, but I also know what my keybinds are for all my individual skills.

And what are you talking about "if you get stunned, what ability do you use"? If you get stunned for 3 seconds, and you have a 6 second /castsequence macro, I don't see the issue.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Meloree » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:25 am

ulushnar wrote:I macro my 6 abilities, but I'd never macro my 9s. Consecration's too much of a mana hog to use blindly. I just have my "6" macro on 1, holy shield on 2, judgement on 3, and consecration on 4, then the dance becomes 1,2,1,3,1,4, repeat until mana low or mob dead.

Besides, I had enough of one-button macro'd rotations during my time as a Hunter in TBC.


/castsequence reset=4 Judgement of Wisdom, Holy Shield, Consecration

Wanna skip or replace Consecration? Great, just don't hit the button, and the macro will reset to Judgement before Judgement is off cooldown.

Snake-Aes wrote:I don't even macro a 6s side because on single targets i'd rather do ShoR first and on aoe i'd rather to HotR first. Though our rotation is the simplest to quantify, it's still not optimal. Or even good, if you have to deal with oddball situations.

And if you rely on that macro, your rotation stops being thourghless and you'll hit the oddball with your pants down.


If you macro ShoR, HotR, and keybind HotR separately... you can start with HotR, and then happily push the 6s macro. I can still do a 5-button rotation. I can still do it with basically the same ability usage/efficiency as I get out of macros. But I end up glancing at the action bars more often to make sure I know where I am in the rotation. And that's attention that's best spent on some other part of a progression boss fight, for me.

theckhd wrote:I don't personally use macros for my 969 because I'm always clamoring for more key bindings and don't have extras to spare. Since there are many cases where I want to modify my rotation, and I need the 5 abilities bound anyway, it's just simpler for me to do it manually.


Although, a 6s macro starting with ShoR, and a HotR button is the same number of keybinds. And a 9s macro starting with judgement, plus a consecration keybind, and a holy shield keybind is the same number of keybinds as a 9s macro.

If you guys don't like macros, that's fine. More power to you. But those 3 objections aren't really all that well thought through.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:40 am

Meloree wrote:
theckhd wrote:I don't personally use macros for my 969 because I'm always clamoring for more key bindings and don't have extras to spare. Since there are many cases where I want to modify my rotation, and I need the 5 abilities bound anyway, it's just simpler for me to do it manually.


Although, a 6s macro starting with ShoR, and a HotR button is the same number of keybinds. And a 9s macro starting with judgement, plus a consecration keybind, and a holy shield keybind is the same number of keybinds as a 9s macro.

If you guys don't like macros, that's fine. More power to you. But those 3 objections aren't really all that well thought through.

There's a subtle difference though. If I want to cast Judgement, and I'm trying to slip it in during the latency window (keep in mind I normally play with 250-300ms latency, but it can spike as high as 500+ or as low as 100 depending on the server's mood, ambient temperature, and the price of corn in New Delhi), there's a chance it'll misfire. So occasionally I'll hit the button 2-3 times to make sure it fires. This works fine with the ability bound directly, but doesn't work with the macro.

Similarly for the ShoR macro. In fact, the ShoR can be arguably worse, since if it fails you cast HotR, and there are cases where you absolutely don't want to cast that (Saurfang during beast spawns, Anub tanking while the off-tank is getting initial add aggro).

Now, normally I don't have to hit each button 2-3 times for every cast - once I get into the rhythm it usually only takes one click. But if one does clip the latency period, I will hit the button a second time. A macro ends up skipping that ability and throwing off the rotation, whereas doing it by hand doesn't.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby Meloree » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:49 am

theckhd wrote:There's a subtle difference though. If I want to cast Judgement, and I'm trying to slip it in during the latency window (keep in mind I normally play with 250-300ms latency, but it can spike as high as 500+ or as low as 100 depending on the server's mood, ambient temperature, and the price of corn in New Delhi), there's a chance it'll misfire. So occasionally I'll hit the button 2-3 times to make sure it fires. This works fine with the ability bound directly, but doesn't work with the macro.


Okay, admittedly I play with ~50ms, but I'm a mad button spammer. I slam the hell out of the key, until the ability goes off, and then slam the hell out of the next key. I've never had a macro double-fire.
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Re: single button tanking?

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:24 am

Meloree wrote:
theckhd wrote:There's a subtle difference though. If I want to cast Judgement, and I'm trying to slip it in during the latency window (keep in mind I normally play with 250-300ms latency, but it can spike as high as 500+ or as low as 100 depending on the server's mood, ambient temperature, and the price of corn in New Delhi), there's a chance it'll misfire. So occasionally I'll hit the button 2-3 times to make sure it fires. This works fine with the ability bound directly, but doesn't work with the macro.


Okay, admittedly I play with ~50ms, but I'm a mad button spammer. I slam the hell out of the key, until the ability goes off, and then slam the hell out of the next key. I've never had a macro double-fire.


Well, actually higher latency is better in that regard. If you have a stable 300 ms window to click your next ability, that's easier to hit than a 50 ms window. What screws it up is the variability. If I hit the ability 250 ms before the GCD is up, and my current latency is 300 ms, it fires. If my current latency suddenly dropped to 100 ms, I get a GCD clash.

Either way though, wouldn't slamming a /castsequence macro rapidly cycle through the abilities, since macro logic is done client-side? In other words, hitting it the first time would try and cast Judgement, the second Holy Shield, and the third Consecration; thus if your first press gets a GCD clash, it would actually end up casting the second ability (or third, or whichever is the first to register within the latency window).

Admittedly, if you're keeping up your rotation, this isn't a huge deal since the other two would be on cooldown. But if you're breaking rotation it could mess up. As an example where this could be a critcial failure, consider trying to cast Judgement with such a macro to pick up initial aggro on an add that's about to munch on a healer (this comes to mind because I was anub add tanking this weekend and did this for one of the adds on each spawn).
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