Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

by **theckhd** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:14 am

3.3 Weapon Analysis, round 1

We may not have all of the possible weapons yet, hence "round 1." Once we discover more of the Icecrown loot table, I'll add the new weapons and post "round 2."

Quick overview of what we know about weapons and their effect on our threat:

Slow weapons are good thanks to SoV 5-stack procs (see past calculations).
The only spec-related choice that can change the outcome is Reckoning.
Higher-DPS weapons tend to trump lower-DPS weapons
Threat stats make only a minor difference (generally less than a 13-ilvl upgrade in weapon dps)

Since 53/18 will be the de-facto tank spec for Icecrown, we'll calculate threat for the 1V+3C and 3R+1V+3C specs. There are notes at the end on how to modify this if you pick up more or less points in Reckoning.

Thanks to Blizzard's inane "lets make identical items with different names" policy for Coliseum, I've generated tables and plots for both Alliance and Horde versions of the weapons.

I've included all of the 2.6-speed melee DPS weapons from Coliseum and ICC. There's no point in adding the 1.6-speed melee DPS weapons, as we'd be better off using a tanking weapon if we're going with a fast weapon. In addition, the difference in TPS between fast tank weapons and fast DPS weapons is very small.

Note that this list is not incorporating racial expertise bonuses - in a close race, the expertise bonus will probably tip the scales in favor of the race's preferred weapons. Be sure to factor that in for yourself if you're using this to gauge an upgrade.

Setup
Rotation: 969
Seals: SoV
Glyphs: V
Talents: 1V+3C and 3R+1V+3C (see the Glossary or the talent analysis if you don't know what these mean)
Gear: T10 Progression Set
Weapons: Too many to list, basically every epic tank weapon in WotLK as well as all 2.6-speed melee DPS weapons from Coliseum, and ICC.

This time around, there are simply too many weapons to fit on one graph that isn't excessively long. I've broken down the plots a bit to make it more manageable. The first three plots will be tanking weapons only, and the fourth plot will show DPS weapons and a few representative tanking weapons.

The data table and first plot will be sorted both by instance and type. The top group on the graph is all slow DPS weapons, the middle group is Coliseum tanking weapons, and the bottom group is Ulduar and Naxx tanking weapons. The table is inverted (DPS weapons at the bottom, tank weapons at the top).

Code: Select all: Alliance List (scroll down for Horde) TPS Weapon ilvl 1V+3C 3R+1V+3C Broken Promise 213 8558 8690 Peacekeeper Blade 219 8350 8433 Stoneguard 219 8419 8509 Legacy of Thunder 219 8464 8558 Last Laugh 226 8478 8569 Titanguard 232 8532 8625 Shiver 232 8535 8627 Sorthalis 239 8566 8658 Lucky Old Sun 219 8394 8482 Gleaming Quel'Serrar 232 8429 8541 Crusader's Glory (232) 232 8482 8569 Falric's Wrist-Chopper 232 8527 8619 Rimefang's Claw 232 8528 8624 Burnished Quel'Serrar 245 8534 8650 Crusader's Glory (245) 245 8603 8692 Honor of the Fallen 245 8626 8719 Bonebreaker Scepter (251) 251 8753 8854 Silverwing Defender 258 8767 8863 Bonebreaker Scepter (264) 264 8912 9017 Troggbane, AotFK 271 8994 9115 Hate-Forged Cleaver 219 8600 8740 Ghoulslicer 219 8613 8752 Singed Vis'kag the Bloodletter 232 8562 8703 Nighttime 232 8727 8871 The Grinder (232) 232 8734 8878 The Lion's Maw (232) 232 8751 8895 Caress of Insanity 232 8794 8939 Vulmir, the Northern Tempest 232 8814 8958 Black Icicle 232 8824 8969 Tempered Vis'kag the Bloodletter 245 8671 8817 Raging Deathbringer 245 8694 8840 The Grinder (245) 245 8868 9016 The Lion's Maw (245) 245 8888 9036 Stormpike Cleaver (245) 245 8938 9087 Quel'Delar, CotS 251 8957 9107 Cudgel of Furious Justice 251 8949 9100 Frost Giant's Cleaver 251 8941 9092 Gutbuster 251 9045 9198 Relentless Gladiator's Longblade 258 8946 9100 Remorseless 258 9023 9176 Stormpike Cleaver (258) 258 9085 9238 Frost Giant's Cleaver (264) 264 9105 9261 Bloodvenom Blade (264) 264 9158 9313 Bloodvenom Blade (277) 277 9344 9506 Horde List TPS Weapon ilvl 1V+3C 3R+1V+3C Broken Promise 213 8558 8690 Peacekeeper Blade 219 8350 8433 Stoneguard 219 8419 8509 Legacy of Thunder 219 8464 8558 Last Laugh 226 8478 8569 Titanguard 232 8532 8625 Shiver 232 8535 8627 Sorthalis 239 8566 8658 Lucky Old Sun 219 8394 8482 Gleaming Quel'Serrar 232 8429 8541 Ardent Guard (232) 232 8482 8569 Falric's Wrist-Chopper 232 8527 8619 Rimefang's Claw 232 8528 8624 Burnished Quel'Serrar 245 8534 8650 Ardent Guard (245) 245 8603 8692 Blood and Glory 245 8626 8719 Bonebreaker Scepter (251) 251 8753 8854 Orgrim's Deflector 258 8767 8863 Bonebreaker Scepter (264) 264 8912 9017 Troggbane, AotFK 271 8994 9115 Hate-Forged Cleaver 219 8600 8740 Ghoulslicer 219 8613 8752 Singed Vis'kag the Bloodletter 232 8562 8703 Nighttime 232 8727 8871 Blackhorn Bludgeon (232) 232 8734 8878 Frostblade Hatchet (232) 232 8751 8895 Caress of Insanity 232 8794 8939 Vulmir, the Northern Tempest 232 8814 8958 Black Icicle 232 8824 8969 Tempered Vis'kag the Bloodletter 245 8671 8817 Raging Deathbringer 245 8694 8840 Blackhorn Bludgeon (245) 245 8868 9016 Frostblade Hatchet (245) 245 8888 9036 Hellscream Slicer (245) 245 8938 9087 Quel'Delar, CotS 251 8957 9107 Cudgel of Furious Justice 251 8949 9100 Frost Giant's Cleaver 251 8941 9092 Gutbuster 251 9045 9198 Relentless Gladiator's Longblade 258 8946 9100 Cudgel of the Damned 258 9023 9176 Hellscream Slicer (258) 258 9085 9238 Frost Giant's Cleaver (264) 264 9105 9261 Bloodvenom Blade (264) 264 9158 9313 Bloodvenom Blade (277) 277 9344 9506

Horde Names

Tank-wise, the new axe is "teh sex." However, it's going to be a few months before we see it. More pertinently, the Bonebreaker Scepter is a pretty impressive weapon. Its 1.7 speed nearly catches it up to Silverwing Defender in threat output. The fact that Bonebreaker drops from the first boss of 10-man ICC means that it should be far more available to tanks thank the previous tier's tanking weapons were.

In addition, we have three new weapons from the new 5-man instances. Lucky Old Sun drops from normal mode, while Rimefang's Claw and Falric's Wrist-Chopper drop from heroic mode. The 232 weapons are a very competetive boon for players who haven't had luck with Anub'arak drops.

The next plots are just sorted differently, by TPS and by ilvl respectively.

Horde Names

Horde Names

Here's the plot with the slow DPS weapons, along with the "upper tier" tanking weapons (ToC/ICC). Again, this one is sorted by instance, then ilvl, then TPS.

Horde Names

Nothing particularly amazing here in terms of insight, but the plot reveals a few interesting options for the new tankadin. The new 219 DPS weapons actually perform as well as the 245-ilvl tanking weapons. Black Icicle from one of the new heroic 5-man instances actually out-threats any tanking weapon available pre-heroic ICC.

One final note - check out how Troggbane out-threats everything but the 258+ ilvl slow dps weapons. Yes, it really is that good.

Finally, I've run the numbers for a few spell damage weapons as well. We all know that spell damage weapons are inferior, but now we have a place to point to with numbers to prove it.

Code: Select all: TPS Weapon ilvl 1V+3C 3R+1V+3C The Turning Tide 226 8187 8277 Seethe 232 8363 8472 Quel'Delar, LotM 251 8426 8533 Hammer of Purified Flame 251 8337 8430 Frozen Bonespike (dagger) 264 8446 8542

The take-home message from this plot is that even the best spell damage weapons in the game are inferior to tanking weapons available two tiers of content ago. Given the availability of the tanking weapons from the heroic 5-man instance, there's no good reason a tankadin should be rolling on spell damage weapons.

TLDR version:

Slow weapons are good for threat. A quick check of the numbers from this analysis shows:
- Going from a 1.6 speed to a 2.6 speed weapon of equal DPS nets you around 200 TPS.
- Each point in Reckoning will add about 30 TPS for a 1.6 speed weapon, while it will add about 48 TPS for a 2.6 speed weapon.
- The combination of these two things means that a 2.6 speed weapon will be ahead of a 1.6 speed weapon of equal dps by 200+18*(# points in Reckoning), as a rule of thumb.
If your tanking weapon is growing long in the tooth, head to the heroic 5-man to pick up one of the 232-ilvl weapons (tanking or dps), or better yet to normal 10-man ICC to pick up Bonebreaker Scepter.
Spellpower Weapons are bad. Don't use them if you have any other option whatsoever.
Troggbane is the sex.

by **Njall** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:35 am

Oh dear. Is Reckoning back on the menu? (sllllooooowly reads and tries to understand charts with help of dictionary). With slow being better for weapons, I would think not? I am, sadly, not a very good theorymuncher.

by **Grehn|Skipjack** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:45 am

Definitely grabbing a 2.6 dps weapon for my lolreckSoComm spec. Need to humiliate more dps.

by **theckhd** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:21 pm

FYI, I just checked and Divine Guardian does indead remain if you right click off Divine Sacrifice.

However, my macro wasn't successfully removing DSac itself with /cancelaura. I'll let you know if I find a workaround.

The best I was able to come up with so far is:

Code: Select all: #show /cast Divine Sacrifice /in 1 /script CancelUnitBuff("player","Divine Sacrifice")

Which cancels Divine Sac 1 second after you cast it. I wasn't able to get it working for /in 0.2, I'll mess around with it a little more to see whether I can get it to work for any intermediate value, or whether it's limited to integers.

<edit> it worked with /in 0.5. My guess is that the lower limit will be your server latency, since mine hovers around 300ms.
<edit2> Wow this totally ended up in the wrong thread. Oops.

by **Awyndel** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:58 am

I just spam the button a few times, wouldn't that be faster then waiting for the macro ( and safer when lag is bigger then your macro ( wich can happen during busy times like yesterday ) )

by **raenac** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:05 am

strange new weapon on wowarmory
Last Word
tank weapon?

by **theckhd** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:10 am

Awyndel wrote:I just spam the button a few times, wouldn't that be faster then waiting for the macro ( and safer when lag is bigger then your macro ( wich can happen during busy times like yesterday ) )

You could just use
/cancelaura Divine Sacrifice
/cast Divine Sacrifice

and spam the button. I prefer the option that lets me hit it once and move on to more important things. The likelihood of taking too much damage in that half-second period is pretty small.

Raenac wrote:strange new weapon on wowarmory
Last Word
tank weapon?

Certainly looks like it. 94 stam and a tank-related proc.

by **raenac** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:19 am

theckhd wrote:
Awyndel wrote:I just spam the button a few times, wouldn't that be faster then waiting for the macro ( and safer when lag is bigger then your macro ( wich can happen during busy times like yesterday ) )

You could just use
/cancelaura Divine Sacrifice
/cast Divine Sacrifice

and spam the button. I prefer the option that lets me hit it once and move on to more important things. The likelihood of taking too much damage in that half-second period is pretty small.

Raenac wrote:strange new weapon on wowarmory
Last Word
tank weapon?

Certainly looks like it. 94 stam and a tank-related proc.

Yeah what I was thinking with the gem slot, even if its yellow, but no tank stats like def/dodge/parry. Proc for threat and +heal for EH just strange o.o

by **theckhd** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:08 am

Raenac wrote:Yeah what I was thinking with the gem slot, even if its yellow, but no tank stats like def/dodge/parry. Proc for threat and +heal for EH just strange o.o

Yeah, it's certainly an oddity. It's relatively slow for a tank weapon as well (1.8 vs. 1.6), which would lead me to believe it's a threat weapon rather than a defensive weapon, despite the lack of baseline strength.

All around it's just a weird item. I wonder if the stats aren't finalized yet, since nobody can attempt heroic for another two months or more anyhow.

by **Amaranthea** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:53 pm

Amaranthea's Shield of Righteousness was dodged by Heroic Training Dummy.
Amaranthea's Shield of Righteousness was parried by Heroic Training Dummy.

by **Awyndel** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:01 am

Amaranthea wrote:Amaranthea's Shield of Righteousness was dodged by Heroic Training Dummy.
Amaranthea's Shield of Righteousness was parried by Heroic Training Dummy.

Expertise craze!

by **theckhd** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:06 am

Amaranthea wrote:Amaranthea's Shield of Righteousness was dodged by Heroic Training Dummy.
Amaranthea's Shield of Righteousness was parried by Heroic Training Dummy.

.... Seriously?

Well, that's new... I thought I saw a parried ShoR in my MSBT log last night, but it was on the pull and I convinced myself I just misread it and never went back to check.

Just checked my WoL report from last night, and indeed Saurfang parried me 8 times in 3 attempts.

So, this means that they've moved ShoR to the melee table or flagged it for dodge/parry, either intentionally or unintentionally. Someone ought to post this on the bug report forum asap.

Thoughts RE: Matlab - This will definitely increase the value of expertise, not sure if it will be enough to eclipse hit though.

We should check other abilities as well to see if anything else has changed (Judgement, for example).

by **theckhd** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:35 am

Logged on to do some testing right now.

ShoR confirmed to be dodged and parried.
ShoR triggers a SoRighteousness proc
ShoR triggers a SoVengeance proc
ShoR triggers a SoCommand proc

I think this is a decent confirmation that it's been moved to the melee table.

by **Circu** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:48 am

I guess that is another point towards Blade Ward then?

by **theckhd** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:56 am

Screenshots for those interested:
http://sites.google.com/site/theckhd/im ... _parry.jpg
http://sites.google.com/site/theckhd/im ... v_proc.jpg
http://sites.google.com/site/theckhd/im ... c_proc.jpg

Circu wrote:I guess that is another point towards Blade Ward then?

It would also benefit mongoose, but yes, either way it will slightly increase the uptime on things that proc on melee attacks.

Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

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