Righteous Fury threat generation bugged - confirmed

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Thundaar » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:48 am

kalbear wrote:
It seems to me (at least i my case) that with the tps/buff to Devastate we have lost our absolute lead in tps over warriors we had prior to 2.3
This is absolutely true; warriors are now the single target threat champions.

Yeah Ill second that. We no longer can keep up with thier singletarget threat... most havn;t even gotten into stacking expertise yet and they are already breaking away.
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Postby Rhaenys » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:58 am

I had some strange aggro issues Sun night and last night as well.

Been working on Kael and hit P4/P5 sun night and last night. I am suppose to tank the phoenixs, until they egg. For whatever reason, I could not pick them up. Shield + JoB, and they would not come to me. RF was up, no salv. I double/triple checked as I was trying to get them off the MT (healing aggro with ES/POM).

After our first Kael killl, we go to SSC, and I have a problem holding my hydross add. But then on Lurker, as I was keeping JoCr up on Lurker, and SoR/JoR, I jumped to #1 threat by far. Really strange. I had to stand at range for half the fight.

During Kael I had about 400 SD. During SSC, I had 500 SD. I have no problems holding aggro with 500. Dont know what was going on.
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Postby jere » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:02 pm

My TPS has been fine honestly. I noticed a drop in burst when I spec'd out of reckoning for CE, but my normal TPS over a sustained fight has actually gone up.

Maybe yall had some major gear changes?
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Postby ack » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:07 pm

Don't know if this really applies, since I have a lot less gear: badge gear and Karazhan gear (and S2 mace), running around 350ish spell damage. Went into ZA with the guild last week, towards the end of the run the rogues and the priest healer was saying that my threat output was real low. One of the rogues mentioned he actually pulled aggro on the eagle boss. Spell rotation has been the same, using JotC, SoR, JoR, consecrate, HS, etc.

With the devastate change to warriors, I could see why they are able to generate a lot of threat, but what I couldn't get around is why could I be generating so little threat according to the raid when the badge gear upgrades I got actually upped my spell damage by a little. One thing I considered was I may have been stacking lot more dodge than I needed (21% or so if I remember), and since the last run I traded in Boots of Elusion for the badge boots.

The loss of reckoning can't gimp the threat output that bad, so unless I suddenly started sucking or did something dumb like forgot to have RF up, I'd almost subscribe to the conspiracy theory of RF being bugged somehow.
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Postby Katamai » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:11 pm

Rhaenys wrote:I had some strange aggro issues Sun night and last night as well.

Been working on Kael and hit P4/P5 sun night and last night. I am suppose to tank the phoenixs, until they egg. For whatever reason, I could not pick them up. Shield + JoB, and they would not come to me. RF was up, no salv. I double/triple checked as I was trying to get them off the MT (healing aggro with ES/POM).

After our first Kael killl, we go to SSC, and I have a problem holding my hydross add. But then on Lurker, as I was keeping JoCr up on Lurker, and SoR/JoR, I jumped to #1 threat by far. Really strange. I had to stand at range for half the fight.

During Kael I had about 400 SD. During SSC, I had 500 SD. I have no problems holding aggro with 500. Dont know what was going on.


Umm... this is scary... i have had the EXACT same problem with our first Kael kill and during all tries!

I had a macro to target the phoenix, cast AW if cd was off and cast AS... and i still couldn't get them off the MT who wasn't even close to them, let alone hitting! I would cast AS (no it didn't miss), run in, JoR, cast max rank consecration and it would still get to the MT/malee group before i could pull it off.

I'm gonna compile this info and post in bug report/pally forums and when i do so, i'll let you guys know and i encourage you to post there.

Looks like we have a bug on our hands.
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Postby Widdox » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:04 am

Tonight on Nightbane I was having Threat issues as well. It feels like my TPS has been nerfed. I wonder if they screwed something up in the code when trying to give Ret Pally's a threat reduce.
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Postby Rhaenys » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:14 am

Katamai wrote:Umm... this is scary... i have had the EXACT same problem with our first Kael kill and during all tries!

I had a macro to target the phoenix, cast AW if cd was off and cast AS... and i still couldn't get them off the MT who wasn't even close to them, let alone hitting! I would cast AS (no it didn't miss), run in, JoR, cast max rank consecration and it would still get to the MT/malee group before i could pull it off.

I'm gonna compile this info and post in bug report/pally forums and when i do so, i'll let you guys know and i encourage you to post there.

Looks like we have a bug on our hands.


That is pretty much what i was doing. And during Hydross, the AoE was pulling off of me early, which nvr happens. But on Lurker, halfway through the fight, my threat was that of a lock, and way above the tank. I wasnt watching Omen, or at least not till I pulled aggro, but it was strange. The only thing I can think of is that I may have accidently hit RD (dont know if Lurker is even tauntable), but I dont think I did.
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Postby Igrado » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:22 am

In a seperat thread on the boards there was some concern over iSOC possibly being bugged, any indication that these two could be related? Seems unlikely to me, but thought I would throw it out there.
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Postby Parishna » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:05 am

I wonder if they over fixed the threat reduction talent in ret?

Because they fixed it for "Unless righteous fury is active" and I could see a few oops code snipits in there causing hell....
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Postby Katamai » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:20 am

As i already said, i'm not much into theorycraft, but does anyone know a proper way to test this and present to Blizzard in such a manner that they can't dismiss it as Omen/KTM bug?

Last night in MH 2 locks pulled aggro and died even though i opened the fight with Holy Wrath and HS+max rank consecration, Blessing of Sanctuary and Retribution Aura... The thing worth noting is that they pulled aggro after they started nuking when i announced it which was 4 sec after i consecrated. Luckily it was just the first pack of ghouls otherwise i think there would be more people dead.

All this was with my mana bar full and 620 spell dmg :/
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Postby Ohmslaw » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:54 am

I noticed in the known issues list for paladins on the official forums they listed the righteous fury spell costing double and it actually taking 2 dispells to get rid of it.

What I would try and also fraps is take a DPS friend over to the guys in the Blasted Lands that don't die (the name escapes me at the moment) and just buff up normally and see if he can pull off you when you have a threat lead.

One thing I am curious about is the double casting. Perhaps the second "cast " of RF is what is causing the problems. I propose for the second attempt that you burn your mana down to just enough for 1 casting of RF and then repeat the previous attempt.

A third possibility, considering so many gear changes in 2.3 is that something in the new badge rewards are causing the problem. I haven't noticed a drop in my threat production, which isn't that spectacular anyway, and I don't have any of the new badge gear yet.

Has anyone with no gear change since 2.3 noticed a change in their TPS?

I hope it's not the badge rewards as I plan on getting some of those soon.

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Postby Katamai » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:44 pm

Something is very wrong in this pic and you guess what... and yes, i tanked him from the start till the shaman was dead and yes, i lost aggro in the end.

My threat was going from 1-1.5 to what you can see in the screenshot, mostly hanging around 300 tps with all the buffs you can see... think it was 590-600 SD.

I had just judged a 5 stack of SoV, casted max rank consecration and renewed HS. If this isn't a bug, i don't know what is :/

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5783 ... 022zk0.jpg
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Postby NarfJones » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:52 pm

Do I see two holy shields? One at 0 sec and one at 7 sec?
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Postby Worldie » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:31 pm

Strangely this happened to our MT as well.

Were in middle of p4 and he suddently loss aggro on Kael, noone was even hitting him since we were dpsing eggs.
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Postby Belarkan » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:19 pm

NarfJones wrote:Do I see two holy shields? One at 0 sec and one at 7 sec?


I bet its another buff like fire shield.
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