[10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

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[10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Wakeman » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:14 am

While my guild's other raid got it in two tries, my raid wiped miserably on it. Though we can blame the undergear problem of the OT and one of the healers and underperformance of some of the DPS (I was DPSing for this fight), checking back the log I noticed there were a few MT deaths caused by some consecutive hits each 1 sec apart: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/76rh ... details/4/

I suspect the -20% dodge partially caused this. Maybe having the OT attacked in front of the boss added some parry haste too. Anyone find this a problem? Any tips to handle this?

Initially I was planning to OTing this on my pally in another raid later this week but now I'm not sure. Any suggestion of minimum gear level / health / avoidable needed to MT/OT this?

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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:26 am

We had the same thing. My OT was a DPS warrior in his tankspecc with U.25/PdC Gear. Not really undergeared, just not as good as my gear.

For healers we had 3, one Main Healer, two that respecced for the fight. The OT died. I don't know, 10 times? I tanked on the kill at least 2 Min solo. Which is possible, but needs cooldowns as hell.

I really don't know, I think it can be due to parry haste, but he also cleaves FAST.

Next time, 2 real tanks and better healers for me.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby hoho » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 am

Our 10-man group had zero tank-death problems there with just shaman/Ulduar geared resto druid healing the tanks. We had DK and paladin, both around 45-47k buffed HP. Our biggest problem were lagspikes. Once they were gone it was easy.

My guess is you simply got unlucky and/or perhaps didn't stack properly for saber lash.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Maridian » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:49 am

It is not simply a matter of luck or not stacking. I'd very much appreciate some input onto this problem.

Our raid attempted it last night, with myself and one of our other tanks (we rotate duties rather than having an assigned MT, but I was MTing it). Speaking for myself, I'm TOC-10 geared with some 245 items mixed in -- I'm missing a couple of slots, but things like a cloak just don't drop in TOC... In other words, our gear was not, should not have been, an issue here.

In fighting him, my experience was that Marrowgar *consistently* reduced my health pool by substantial portions extremely quickly. Beyond 10k melee hits, he was also saber lashing for 10k on both myself and the OT. (If it hit only me, it was 20k, so I know we were splitting the damage properly.) Frequently these saber lashes came *one second apart*. Incoming damage was *so* high, so consistently, that it was just not possible for our healers (disc, holy, tree) to keep us up if one of them was taken out due to graveyard or even just needing to run from coldflame for more than a GCD's worth of time.

I really have to ask: what are we missing on this fight? How on earth are we supposed to survive a 3-GCD full-to-zero reduction consistently throughout the fight? Moreover, people portray this as an easy matter, but in addition to the tank survivability problems, we also found Bonestorm could not simply be 'healed through' as some people have advised (possibly because our raid is mostly cloth).

Any suggestions, any help (beyond unlucky -- this was consistent over multiple tries -- and not stacking, which we were)?
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Neara » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:58 am

10k per second doesn't sound like a lot of dmg, patchwerk 25 does twice that
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Niinbob » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:32 am

We wiped once because we forgot about Saber Lash, I was solo tanking it, but we ended up getting threw the first WW before I got gibed. When we used 2 tanks the dmg seemed very easy to heal threw, we were only 2 healing it with a pally/druid. I think a pally healing makes a big difference though due to their ability to heal 2 tanks very well.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Worldie » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:51 am

Basically, Marrowgar just spams Saber Lash. 12kish dam every couple seconds.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Argali » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:03 am

When I went to the 25 man last night, the healers complained that healing was so easy, that we're contemplating just using 2 tanks to eat saber lash. My gear is of the semi-hardcore raider, progress in ToC25 hc, but it's not on farm.

Tanking wise, you just stand in front of him, you don't seem to be doing anything wrong on that.

Chill of the Throne is a non-factor. It doesn't affect you in anyway at all. Encounters are tuned with a certain set of buffs and debuffs. If Blizzard decided tomorrow to increase the hp of tanks by 25%, bosses would do 25% more damage. Boss damage in ICC has been tuned accordingly with Chill of the Throne.

My opinion is that it might be a lack of skill from your healers. Skill matters a lot over gear, as gear requirements are a lot lower than you think. There's still a lot of people who can't do Algalon10 with ilvl 245 gear, and so many people who have the "Herald of the Titans" title which requires you to do him with only t8 gear.

Skill is always a touchy issue, and a lot of healers will claim "Boss hits too hard", "Tank is undergeared", "Lag", "Unavoidable Damage Spikes QQ" before admitting they're not playing their character to 100% of the class and gear. Also, healers might be too focused on avoiding Cold Flame, and positioning, and actually forgetting to heal.

A log or death recap would be very helpful to look over, if you have one.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Maridian » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:08 am

Saber Lash was coming more frequently than "a couple of seconds". As I said initially, we were being reduced in the space of 3 GCDs or so. Saber lashes were coming only a second apart (I checked the logs, though I don't have them saved since I track this sort of thing through Recount death reports). And comparing to Patchwerk is a bit specious when the healers don't have to move or pay any attention to the raid on Patchwerk, whereas in this fight they have to dodge the flame and mind the impales, etc.

I'm attempting to figure out here what, precisely, we are doing differently, than other people who report "no difficulty."

Our healing composition, as noted, was holy/disc/tree. Perhaps shamans or paladins have an easier time with this fight but we don't have one, so moot point. Perhaps the issue is in positioning. Is there some way to minimize the amount of fire headed for the healers? Spreading the raid out seemed to help not at all, as the fires picked on healers just as much as DPS. Is there an unknown advantage to bringing the raid closer to Marrowgar? In short and to be blunt, I'm looking for useful advice, rather than just a restatement of things not relevant to our composition or not meshing with our experience. :/
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Argali » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:39 am

Go in again, and get a log this time. Give us armory links for the tanks, and healer.

Also, perhaps your dps aren't killing the impales fast enough, therefore creating unnecessary healing for the healers?

And unless you provide all the relevant information, all that can be done is speculation.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:22 am

hoho wrote:Our 10-man group had zero tank-death problems there with just shaman/Ulduar geared resto druid healing the tanks. We had DK and paladin, both around 45-47k buffed HP. Our biggest problem were lagspikes. Once they were gone it was easy.

My guess is you simply got unlucky and/or perhaps didn't stack properly for saber lash.


It also depends on a gear level. Went in with myself and a warrior OT, we've only done up to Twins in ToGC10 so in a mix of 232 and some 245 gear. Holy Paladin healer and a Resto druid. We were simply unable to keep the tanks alive at some points, mainly when a healer was spiked, and either myself or the OT would go down.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Niinbob » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:53 am

Flex wrote:It also depends on a gear level. Went in with myself and a warrior OT, we've only done up to Twins in ToGC10 so in a mix of 232 and some 245 gear. Holy Paladin healer and a Resto druid. We were simply unable to keep the tanks alive at some points, mainly when a healer was spiked, and either myself or the OT would go down.


If you are undergeared I would recommend 3 healers, it would prevent a tank death when a healer gets impaled I think.

@ Maridian > We can only give useful advice if you give us all the info meaning logs, armory links, examples like Argali said. The saber lash shouldn't really drop you in 3 secs if you have 2 tanks taking them. 12k a hit every sec even is 36k, how much hp do you have? I know I sit at 61khp raid buffed (druids heh) but I think our pallys/warriors have close to mid 50s so as long as you are getting SOME kind of heal in there (druid hots, priests renew) you should be fine. It's really hard to help without logs to look at :(

The only other advice I could give is make sure your healers are spread out well so 1 flame won't make 2 healers move
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:13 am

Niinbob wrote:If you are undergeared I would recommend 3 healers, it would prevent a tank death when a healer gets impaled I think.


Well is being in mostly 232 and some 245 gear undergeared for ICC10? I would say no when I can sport 50K buffed in a 10 man. Third healer disconnected early in the night, in NAxx for the weekly and we had no option to bring in a third =(
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Scrawn » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:16 am

Not sure if this is the correct post as their was no general 10man for Marrow.

We did this with ease on Wednesday but looking to improve the strategy and go for the achievement.

All strats ive seen see the range spread out - to keep spikes close couldn't you have the raid stack, and then every cold flame move say 5 feet to the right then carry on DPS, this would ensure that every bone spike is within range of all your ranged dps at all times.

For the whirlwind, i couldn't actually see any noticeable damage, does anyone have numbers? Does it hit anyone apart from the person he chases? Instead of asking my raid to spread quickly just asking them to keep 10 yards from his hitbox and nuke would suffice?
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Radience » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:40 am

I didn't have any issues solo tanking him, saber lash hits about ~20k.
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