Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:04 am

"Unrestrained Awesome"

horde version this time for equity:
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I'd like to add that I love that this is from llich king 10-man hard mode (according to the db). It means I'll see it much sooner than I'll see anything from a 25-man hard mode at the current point in time.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby honorshammer » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:17 am

Raenac wrote:OMG, whats this gonna be on the list?
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/51947/troggbane-axe-of-the-frostborne-king/

I'm assuming the speed is going to lend to more TPS? :D


I apologize for the slight derail but if you follow the link, you'll notice at the bottom of the page

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* lichking-10-hard


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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby raenac » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:28 am

honorshammer wrote:
Raenac wrote:OMG, whats this gonna be on the list?
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/51947/troggbane-axe-of-the-frostborne-king/

I'm assuming the speed is going to lend to more TPS? :D


I apologize for the slight derail but if you follow the link, you'll notice at the bottom of the page

Tags

* lichking-10-hard


iLevel 271 Axe from 10 MAN Lich King Hard.

Excuse me just a moment, I need to go change my pants.


Yeah each time i look at it I do same :) and hi honor, love your blog!
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby magnuskn » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:37 am

Where is the Lionhead Slasher on the TPS list, if I may ask? Just got it in TotC25. :)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:51 am

magnuskn wrote:Where is the Lionhead Slasher on the TPS list, if I may ask? Just got it in TotC25. :)

It's a 1.5-speed weapon, so it should fall around the same place as Crusader's Glory (245). The dps stats will likely off-set the lack of STR.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:00 am

Just a note, in the latest MMO-Champ loot update, it looks like they've renamed The Brokenhammer to Bonebreaker Scepter.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby magnuskn » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:29 am

theckhd wrote:
magnuskn wrote:Where is the Lionhead Slasher on the TPS list, if I may ask? Just got it in TotC25. :)

It's a 1.5-speed weapon, so it should fall around the same place as Crusader's Glory (245). The dps stats will likely off-set the lack of STR.


Oh, so Burnished Quel'Serrar is roughly equivalent? I got both now and would really like to know which to prefer. :)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:20 pm

magnuskn wrote:Oh, so Burnished Quel'Serrar is roughly equivalent? I got both now and would really like to know which to prefer. :)

I would guess that Lionhead Slasher will be a little better than Burnished Quel'Serrar for threat, but QS would be preferable for tanking just on a defensive basis.

I'm basically assuming that fast DPS weapons aren't preferable to fast tanking weapons because we don't gain anything from the speed and the threat stats on a DPS weapon are roughly equivalent to the threat we get from STR on a tanking weapon, since AGI/crit/AP/etc aren't as good as STR for us.

Just to check, I ran the numbers and it comes out just slightly weaker than Crusader's Glory (245) since it wastes some itemization on Armor Penetration, but still slightly ahead of QS:
Code: Select all
Burnished  Quel'Serrar            245    7753    7860 
Crusader's Glory (245)            245    7827    7909 
Lionhead Slasher (245)            245    7820    7903 


I don't really want to make a giant graph with every possible weapon on it, simply because it becomes much harder to read. I've chosen to leave the slow fast DPS weapons off because in general they're at best a sidegrade. Slow DPS weapons are only on there because of our scaling with weapon speed, and I'm even considering leaving them off the graph next patch for clarity.

My recommendation: Enchant QS with a defensive enchant and use that most of the time, enchant Lionhead Slasher with Accuracy for fights where you want to sacrifice some defensive stats for more threat.
Last edited by theckhd on Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Ragingsoul » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:52 pm

how does Raging Deathbringer stands against the other btw, without taking the proc into account?
no stats, but 2.7 speed is reallllly slow and nice.

Saw this a couple times from 10 and 25men, just wanted to know if you had time to see if it was worth something.
The no stamina and socket makes it not ideal for tanking ofc, just wanted to know in terms of threat.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby magnuskn » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:31 am

theckhd wrote:
magnuskn wrote:Oh, so Burnished Quel'Serrar is roughly equivalent? I got both now and would really like to know which to prefer. :)

I would guess that Lionhead Slasher will be a little better than Burnished Quel'Serrar for threat, but QS would be preferable for tanking just on a defensive basis.

I'm basically assuming that fast DPS weapons aren't preferable to fast tanking weapons because we don't gain anything from the speed and the threat stats on a DPS weapon are roughly equivalent to the threat we get from STR on a tanking weapon, since AGI/crit/AP/etc aren't as good as STR for us.

Just to check, I ran the numbers and it comes out just slightly weaker than Crusader's Glory (245) since it wastes some itemization on Armor Penetration, but still slightly ahead of QS:
Code: Select all
Burnished  Quel'Serrar            245    7753    7860 
Crusader's Glory (245)            245    7827    7909 
Lionhead Slasher (245)            245    7820    7903 


I don't really want to make a giant graph with every possible weapon on it, simply because it becomes much harder to read. I've chosen to leave the slow DPS weapons off because in general they're at best a sidegrade. Slow DPS weapons are only on there because of our scaling with weapon speed, and I'm even considering leaving them off the graph next patch for clarity.

My recommendation: Enchant QS with a defensive enchant and use that most of the time, enchant Lionhead Slasher with Accuracy for fights where you want to sacrifice some defensive stats for more threat.


Really great advice. Thank you!
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:01 am

magnuskn wrote:Really great advice. Thank you!

I noticed I made a slight typo in my response, but since you quoted me, I couldn't just stealth edit it away. :P

That should have read, "I've chosen to leave the fast DPS weapons off because in general they're at best a sidegrade."
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:45 am

Ragingsoul wrote:how does Raging Deathbringer stands against the other btw, without taking the proc into account?
no stats, but 2.7 speed is reallllly slow and nice.

Saw this a couple times from 10 and 25men, just wanted to know if you had time to see if it was worth something.
The no stamina and socket makes it not ideal for tanking ofc, just wanted to know in terms of threat.

Basically the same as Tempered Vis'kag. It's only about 20 TPS better thanks to the extra 0.1 weapon speed. Again, that's pre-proc, feel free to estimate and adjust manually if you know the proc rate.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:04 am

3.3 Progression Gear Set

Just to make sure any calculations I do for 3.3 are reasonably accurate, I'm updating the gear set to ilvl 264. Due to instance gating, the way I'm approaching it to assume that tanks planning on approaching heroic modes will be using the best 264 gear from normal mode, with a few exceptions where a 264-ilvl version either doesn't exist (to our knowledge, anyway) or there's a better, lower-level version.

I'm also going in with the mindset that for heroic modes, EH will be the primary stat we're interested in. That means not choosing gear with hit over gear with added armor, and so forth. This should be fine, since for sustained TPS what we really want to know is what our STR level is in 264ish gear. It's also more convenient to be under hit and expertise caps when doing the calculations.

Here's the gear list I'm using right now. Please suggest changes/adjustments if you have them - there should be time to discuss this before the final gear list is out.

T10 Hard-Mode Progression Set
Head: T10 Helm, Agi/Stam gem. (no known equivalent)
Shoulder: T10 Shoulders, 30 Stam. (identical to the off-set option)
Chest: Cataclysmic Chestguard, 3x30 Stam (more EH than T10, at a loss of ~40 STR and avoidance)
Gloves: Gauntlets of the Kraken, 2x30 Stam (more EH and STR than T10, loss of avoidance)
Legs: Pillars of Might, 3x30 Stam (More EH and STR than T10, loss of some avoidance)

Wrist: Gargoyle Spit Bracers, 30 Stam. (More Armor than Dark Reckoning at the cost of 40 parry)
Cloak: Sentinel's Winter Cloak
Belt: Verdigris Chain Belt, 2x30 Stam. (More EH than Broken Bones, loss of Dodge)
Boots: Boots of Kingly Upheaval, 2x30 Stam. (Only known boots atm)

Neck: Marrowgar's Scratching Choker, 30 Stam. (No 264 neck known, and this one has lots of EH)
Ring1: Harbinger's Bone Band
Ring2: Ashen Band of Greater Courage (for lack of knowing Revered or higher options)
Trinket1: Corroded Skeleton Key
Trinket2: Satrina's Impending Scarab (outside of DMC:G, we don't have threat trinket options anyway, so these hardly matter)

Weapon: Bonebreaker Scepter
Shield: Crystal Plated Vanguard (258), 30 Stam
Libram: Libram of Valiance (even on progression content, this might see use for its massive threat boost compared to a relatively weak avoidance bonus)

Enchants
Head - 37 Sta / 20 Def
Shoulder - 30 Sta
Back - 26 agi
Chest - 275 Health
Bracer - 40 Sta
Glove - 18 Sta
Legs - 55 Sta / 22 Agi
Boot - 22 Sta
Ring - 30 Sta each
Weapon - 25 Hit / 25 Crit
Shield - 18 Sta

This set keeps our 2-piece, while making use of most of the high-EH, high-Armor off-set pieces.

Comparison of this set to the T9 set, in terms of stat breakdown:
Code: Select all
    'Stat'     'T10P'     'T9Theck'
    'STR'      [ 1649]    [   1122]
    'STA'      [ 3278]    [   2822]
    'AGI'      [   58]    [     78]
    'INT'      [    0]    [      0]
    'SPI'      [    0]    [      0]
    'Hit'      [  160]    [     99]
    'Crit'     [   25]    [     25]
    'Exp'      [   82]    [    270]
    'AP'       [    0]    [      0]
    'SP'       [    0]    [      0]
    'Haste'    [    0]    [      0]
    'ArP'      [    0]    [      0]
    'Def'      [  853]    [    777]
    'Dod'      [  639]    [    775]
    'Parr'     [  298]    [    251]
    'BV'       [  369]    [    412]
    'BR'       [    0]    [     33]
    'Armor'    [28922]    [  23742]

A noticeable jump in STR and STA (though some of that is due to gemming philosophy changes), more hit, less expertise (though still soft-capped). More Defense, less dodge, more parry (no, I haven't checked the ratios). A little drop in BV, but a huge 5k jump in armor.

Next-up: Weapon analysis v3.3, round 1
Last edited by theckhd on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby lythac » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:21 am

The Arbiter's Muse > Marrowgar's Scratching Choker

The Satrina's you have listed is the 245 rather than the 258, but doesn't really change anything.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:56 am

Lythac wrote:The Arbiter's Muse > Marrowgar's Scratching Choker

The Satrina's you have listed is the 245 rather than the 258, but doesn't really change anything.

Both of those were intentional, actually. I was trying to avoid using 258 items in general. Of course, now that I look at it, I forgot to post weapon/shield, which includes the 258 Crystal Plated Vanguard. But since that's available from the first boss of ToGC25, it should be reasonably available to tanks in mostly 264 gear.
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