Some help with tanking

Strats / Info that doesn't fit in a specific instance

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Some help with tanking

Postby Sander92 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:52 am

Hey!
I just dinged 80 a couple of days ago, and i started gearing up my tank as soon as possible. As you can see I'm def capped for HC's, but I aint doing too good. I tried HC UK earlier today and i couldn't keep aggro at all, not even on trash. I'm going with blessing of sanc, SoV/C and righteous fury. I'm using the 96969 rotation, which I got 2 macros for instead. I don't know why i couldn't hold aggro, might be my spec or i just need practice?

Armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodscalp&cn=dyma

Edit: I also find myself OOM extremely fast.
Sander92
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Zobel » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:13 am

Your spec looks fine, except those five points in Seal of the Pure would probably be better spent in Pursuit of Justice and Crusade. Use judgment of wisdom and try to keep divine plea up to help with mana issues. No shame in drinking between pulls if you aren't chaining groups. If you have good healing, then ret aura instead of devotion might help a little. Pull with avenger's shield when you can. For dungeon bosses, you can pull with hand of reckoning + avenger's shield, for an extra little bit of threat.

Check the macros you're using (and consider not using them at all) -- you'll get a lot more snap aggro on trash if you're opening with hammer of the righteous than with, say, consecration. You might glyph HotR instead of SoV since you aren't tanking bosses yet, to help with bigger groups. Depending on how fast trash is dying, you might not worry as much about maintaining a proper rotation as with building as much threat up front as quickly as possible.

Beyond that, you probably just need better gear, which you'll get. There's only so much threat you can generate in ilvl 175 blues when you're trying to hold aggro away from dps in ivl 245 purples. Start running regular ToC to upgrade lots of your slots.
User avatar
Zobel
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Shoju » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:20 am

1.) Swap out the Glyph of Seal of Vengeance for Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous for Heroics.
2.) Get rid of macros. 2 button Macro tanking makes for really bad habits. Learn the natural progression of how it works. Macros have their place. 2 button tanking is not that place.
3.) I personally would Respec. You can following the link in my sig to my tanking build and take a look at it.
4.) Glyph of Judgement over Righteous Defense. That glyph will only help with taunting a Raid boss. Judgement is more threat.
5.) If you are going OOM, consider 54/17 where you add a second point to Spiritual Attunement and lose 1 point in crusade.

6.) Enchant your gear. It is the easiest thing int he world to do. I'm not telling you to drop 5k on top of the line enchants, but:

Run Dailies for Argent Crusade rep to revered.
Run Dailies/Buy your way to Sons of Hodir Honored at least
Defense or Agi on the cloak
Stats at least on bracers. 40 stam would be nice, but I understand that it doesn't belong on those bracers.
Armsman on Gloves. You need the threat.
Cheap leg kit on pants. They are 30g on most servers
Titanium Weapon Chain on the weapon.

7.) Get a good libram. The Venture Bay Dailies will get you a better threat libram at the very least. It wont be 'great', but better than what you have.

8.) Make sure that you are smashing Divine Plea whenever you see it up.
9.) Make sure you use your racial. Mana is mana.
10.) How are you pulling? Are you using Avenger's Shield? That should be a TON of threat. Follow it up with a Hammer of the Righteous, and you should be awesome.
11.) Pop Avenging Wrath at the beginning of the pull if you feel that you need the extra threat.
12.) Once you get into a run, if you see someone is constantly pulling aggro. Set them as a focus target for yourself. Make a Macro (this is the place for macros) that will cast Righteous Defense on your Focus Target. I personally always set my healer as my focus. Why? Because if DPS pull it is normally their fault, if My healer pulls aggro, I need to get them off of her.
13.) Mark your kill order. I use Skull, X, Square, Triangle, Moon. They are hotkeyed out of the way for me, but accessible enough that I can mark quickly.
14.) Don't be afraid to pack pots if you need to.
15.) Stop wearing that Wyrmrest Accord tabard right now and put on an Argent Crusade Tabard.

That would be my step by step guide to get you from where you are to where you should be.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Njall » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:25 am

Shoju wrote:10.) How are you pulling? Are you using Avenger's Shield? That should be a TON of threat. Follow it up with a Hammer of the Righteous, and you should be awesome.


Good stuff. But I'd recommend starting the pull with Hand of Reckoning and then Avenger's Shield to really front load your threat. if you can hit two different targets with these, so much the better.

Enchants. Yeah. The Librarm should be the first thing you get with emblems. Libram of the Sacred Shield is the best threat librarm in your situation, I think. Its a steal at 17 emblems. Check the gear guide here for some details on what to get and where to get it.

I might recommend you keep the taunt glyph but in your case, the problem is keeping threat so anything that boosts your threat production should come first.
Image
Flight to Peru: £1000
Camping gear: £200
Native guide: £50
Sledgehammer to break down stone door: £12.99
Awakening one of the Great Old Ones: priceless.

There are some things man was not meant to know. For everything else,
there's Mastercard.
User avatar
Njall
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 4328
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:13 pm
Location: Thank heavens! Heavy Metal!

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Shoju » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:32 am

Njall wrote:
Shoju wrote:10.) How are you pulling? Are you using Avenger's Shield? That should be a TON of threat. Follow it up with a Hammer of the Righteous, and you should be awesome.


Good stuff. But I'd recommend starting the pull with Hand of Reckoning and then Avenger's Shield to really front load your threat. if you can hit two different targets with these, so much the better.

Enchants. Yeah. The Librarm should be the first thing you get with emblems. Libram of the Sacred Shield is the best threat librarm in your situation, I think. Its a steal at 17 emblems. Check the gear guide here for some details on what to get and where to get it.


I had thought about suggesting that, my only fear is because the gear isn't 'top notch', the tank might need to save that HoR for a quick taunt.

Though Njall is right, if you Hand of Reckoning, and then Avenger's Shield, you should have PRIMO threat on the First kill target, and HotR will lock down the rest.

The frustrating thing about tanking is that it is a very steep learning curve. It isn't really a curve, but rather large steps.


Great awesome super tank


---------------------------------------good tank




-------------------------------------------------------------tolerable tank








------------------------------------------------------------------------------------bad tank.


Everyone started on that bottom step. Getting to the next step is really the hardest part about it all.


*EDIT* I would find myself clinging to the edge of being a good tank, trying to claw my way up to being a full on good tank. Threat was never a problem for me, because I approach tanking from a DPS perspective. I have bad cooldown Management, but awesome threat.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Njall » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:43 am

Shoju wrote:
I had thought about suggesting that, my only fear is because the gear isn't 'top notch', the tank might need to save that HoR for a quick taunt.

Though Njall is right, if you Hand of Reckoning, and then Avenger's Shield, you should have PRIMO threat on the First kill target, and HotR will lock down the rest.


Hitting tab will shift the Hammer from target to target so you're not left without any DoT threat generation due to mobdeath or, with an unattended mob that has very, very minimal damage on it - these are the ones that run away and gib your healer (the dps can suck it up).

And remember, he has a second taunt - Righteous Defense.

The frustrating thing about tanking is that it is a very steep learning curve. It isn't really a curve, but rather large steps.

Everyone started on that bottom step. Getting to the next step is really the hardest part about it all.


*EDIT* I would find myself clinging to the edge of being a good tank, trying to claw my way up to being a full on good tank. Threat was never a problem for me, because I approach tanking from a DPS perspective. I have bad cooldown Management, but awesome threat.


I'm a decent tank but I'll be better when I have a better handle on those situationally useful abilities like Hand of Protection and Hand of Salvation. I'm not great at managing threat-reduction.
Image
Flight to Peru: £1000
Camping gear: £200
Native guide: £50
Sledgehammer to break down stone door: £12.99
Awakening one of the Great Old Ones: priceless.

There are some things man was not meant to know. For everything else,
there's Mastercard.
User avatar
Njall
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 4328
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:13 pm
Location: Thank heavens! Heavy Metal!

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Sander92 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:16 pm

Thanks a lot for the replies!
I'm gonna follow your step-by-step guide Shoju, and Njall thanks for the input, been great help ;) started doing HoS and HoL normal after i read trough what u said first and it went very smooth, going for ToC normal now.

Currently i only have 15g so i wont be able to do much about the things that cost gold, but ill start farming ;)
Sander92
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Njall » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:24 pm

Sander92 wrote:Thanks a lot for the replies!
I'm gonna follow your step-by-step guide Shoju, and Njall thanks for the input, been great help ;) started doing HoS and HoL normal after i read trough what u said first and it went very smooth, going for ToC normal now.

Currently i only have 15g so i wont be able to do much about the things that cost gold, but ill start farming ;)


Yes. Farm the heck out of ToC normal. But do not neglect the easier heroics such as VH, UK and Nexus. You will find that even a few pieces of Emblem gear will make an amazing difference. Do the dailies for Hodir and the Argent Tournament - cash will arrive very, VERY quickly - and you will be more than able to pay for the equipment these grinds make available.
Image
Flight to Peru: £1000
Camping gear: £200
Native guide: £50
Sledgehammer to break down stone door: £12.99
Awakening one of the Great Old Ones: priceless.

There are some things man was not meant to know. For everything else,
there's Mastercard.
User avatar
Njall
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 4328
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:13 pm
Location: Thank heavens! Heavy Metal!

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Shoju » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:27 pm

If you need gold. Listen very carefully.

You are a Prot Paladin. The might of Stratholme lying in Eastern Plaguelands is you playground. Empty your bags. COMPLETELY except for a stack or two of water.

KILL IT ALL
LOOT IT ALL

Vendor the greys. Vendor the BoP's. Auction House the cloth if it is selling for 2g50s a stack or more. Otherwise, make bandages and vendor the bandages. You will get 20+ stacks of runecloth for a full clear. If you have an enchanter, D/E all of the BoE's. If you don't have an enchanter, Vendor them. Trust me, but the time you tip the enchanter for D/Eing it, you will have hurt the profitability of the enchanting mats. Once you get the hang of the runs, you can pull a ton, drop them all, and clear fast. I can make at least 250-300g per run.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Njall » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:57 pm

Shoju wrote:
KILL IT ALL
LOOT IT ALL


And who knows? You might get a nice horsie.
Image
Flight to Peru: £1000
Camping gear: £200
Native guide: £50
Sledgehammer to break down stone door: £12.99
Awakening one of the Great Old Ones: priceless.

There are some things man was not meant to know. For everything else,
there's Mastercard.
User avatar
Njall
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 4328
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:13 pm
Location: Thank heavens! Heavy Metal!

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Shoju » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:02 pm

I will never forget getting the horse. But that is a story for another thread.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Sander92 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:27 pm

Gonna try strat right now :D How long wud u usually spend per run?
Sander92
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Velys » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:42 am

It also depends a lot on your dps behavior: if a warrior is popping CDs and Bladestorm right after you pulled, there is a big chance you will lose the "attention" of the mobs that are not your primary target.
Also MD from a hunter or the equivalent from a rogue is always welcome if available.
Simply tell them before starting the instance that you are gearing up so they should keep an eye on omen and use aggro reduction/dump if necessary. And they should always wait for all the mobs to be on you before starting to nuke them down.
Spending 5 more minutes to clear the instance is not a big deal anyway. :)

We have lost some threat lately, especially when you are using blue tanking gear that has much more stamina than strength.
The higher gear level you get, the better it goes as your strength will get closer to 50% of your stamina (or maybe even better).

If you run with a DK, you should notice the difference too: +150 strength and agility is a nice boost (shammies can also drop a totem that has the same effect).

Edit: regarding the oom issue you should be fine if you pop Divine Plea just before you pull as it will refresh as long as you hit something (so the whole fight). If you can find and hit a critter between 2 pulls it will be refreshed too. In most instances, you should bee able to have DP almost always up when you fight.

I think there is still a lack of tanks on many servers. I hope that you won't be discouraged as the gearing up at 80 is probably the hardest of all 3 roles. Good luck. :)
Velys
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Dem » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:06 am

Good advice on gearing, glyphs and enchants etc here.
One easy way to get more threat is use food(dragonfin)and elixirs - both for strength. Bit expensive if you wipe a lot but very useful. The created food from the current pilgrim event thing is very cheap and not bad if you take the attack power one (turkey?).
Also, if you can get it at some point, the Darkmoon card from the Nobles deck (Strength version) is amazing for threat. Bit expensive I know, but work at it.

Apart from that, if you're doing everything you can it's down to dps to manage their threat appropriately.

I have a very well geared pally tank and a DK alt tank just turned 80. Definitely more of a challenge with much lower gear, but what you need to do is ask for 5 seconds to establish threat before they start nuking. If they can't do that then I'd find a group who can. Your job is to generate threat and not die. Their job is to stay below your threat and kill the target (and not die).

If people insist on nuking from the start on a fight that doesn't need it, and where I've taunted mobs off them a few times, I let them tank it. And die. As many times as it takes to get the message through.
Dem
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:39 am

Re: Some help with tanking

Postby Sander92 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:29 am

I've noticed I've already improved a LOT from the help that I have been getting here, mana is no longer a problem, threat does not seem to be a problem, I've respecced and loving it. Tanked HC nexus and ToC normal everything going fine. Gotten a few gear upgrades and getting tempered titansteel helmet and shoes soon, know they're not great but they're certainly an upgrade. So thanks to everyone who replied, i seem to be doing ALOT better allready.
Sander92
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:09 am

Next

Return to General Strats

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests