A disturbing trend

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A disturbing trend

Postby Erendis » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:27 am

So, I make a habit of inspecting other pally tanks specs. Most out of curiosity. Well I found that upwards to 80% of all pally tanks I look at do not have any points in Judgements of the Just.

Why is this?

Are there that many fail players or is there some new information or strat that I am missing? As far as I know it's still the #1 mitigation talent in the tree.

Why is this happening? And what can I do about it?
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Invisusira » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:38 am

People who don't do any sort of research on their class and spec (about 80% of all people who play the game) pass it off as "some debuff that someone else can probably do."

It's nothing new, it's just an easy way to spot tanks who actually know what they're doing.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Erendis » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:49 am

Ok, so i'm not out of my mind.

End result talking to people tonight was 3 people that swore it didn't work on bosses. 2 people that said it was a waste of points and better spent on things like Reckoning. Only One person that agreed with me.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby hoho » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:41 am

I've seen ~4-5 very high-level paladin tanks (at least totgc10 cleared) and only one beside me had points there. It always took a long time to convince them how good it is. Sad but true
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Awyndel » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:50 am

Ow don't worry on my server they take blade warding for threat and think hit gives more threat then str. Must be warrior rerolls...
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Alixander » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:50 am

Some of it may depend on raid comp. For example, if you always have a Frost DK in your raid, it becomes a moot point since they will have talented Frost Fever up and that gives the same effect as JotJ, and they do it anyway for the additional damage that Icy Touch will give.

Now, this is still a stupid plan as said DK could die or be assigned to a different target, but it might not be from a lack of research. Just sayin'.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Spectrum » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:44 pm

Alixander wrote:Some of it may depend on raid comp. For example, if you always have a Frost DK in your raid, it becomes a moot point since they will have talented Frost Fever up and that gives the same effect as JotJ, and they do it anyway for the additional damage that Icy Touch will give.

Now, this is still a stupid plan as said DK could die or be assigned to a different target, but it might not be from a lack of research. Just sayin'.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Argali » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:55 pm

Usually, only top end, very uber guilds create situations where you can have "unique" specs. Because :

a) People tend not to die
b) Raid attendance is nearly 100%.

E.g. A demo shout effect is mandatory, and I believe Ghostcrawler has mentioned it is one of the debuffs that bosses are balanced around, and is therefore mandatory.
For every fight in ToC (excluding FC), only 2 people every need an. imp demo shout effect. Pref paladins since vindication is only 2 points.

However, in the typical guild, a LOT of things can go wrong such as - The exact 2 people not raiding, need to play a different offspec, die in a fight etc.etc.

So, if you're in a typical guild, you spec vindication/imp.demo roar/imp.demo shout, because you HAVE to.

I recently had a bear guild app that didn't have Infected Wounds. Because his IRL older brother, who also happens to be an ex-GM, and also has "Death's Demise" as a title, doesn't spec into. Infected Wounds is bacially JotJ for 3 points, in case you don't know anything about bears.

Being an evil git, I bit the bullet and just plainly called someone with "Death's Demise" an idiot tank, unless there is a good explanation for it ^_^
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Awyndel » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:49 am

Argali wrote:a) People tend not to die


Nonsense. Even the best guilds in the world wipe on progression.

If you don't pick up your utility talents you're just stubborn imo.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Argali » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:46 am

Awyndel wrote:
Argali wrote:a) People tend not to die


Nonsense. Even the best guilds in the world wipe on progression.

If you don't pick up your utility talents you're just stubborn imo.


It's basically how much you want to risk it. I think I remember on the program QI, it was said that there is a 1 in 3000 (? can't remember honestly) chance of you slipping, and dying in the shower. So that means, if you take a shower everyday, you will die in 10 years ^_^

I don't think this will make people stop showering though.

But yes, I do agree that the risk, expected payoff, and the consequences if the raid is unable to apply the debuff, do not warrant the whatever else you can put the points in.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby majiben » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:57 pm

Argali wrote:It's basically how much you want to risk it. I think I remember on the program QI, it was said that there is a 1 in 3000 (? can't remember honestly) chance of you slipping, and dying in the shower. So that means, if you take a shower everyday, you will die in 10 years ^_^
Somewhat off topic, but that number only makes sense as your lifetime chances of dying in a shower. If that was on a per shower basis, showering would be the leading cause of death.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby ydraw » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:52 pm

I also assume it's not controlled for age, as 99% who slip and die in the shower will be people over the age of 60.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Narsill » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:16 pm

hoho wrote:I've seen ~4-5 very high-level paladin tanks (at least totgc10 cleared) and only one beside me had points there. It always took a long time to convince them how good it is. Sad but true


I get this ALOT on our realm, trying to convince people that JotJ and Vidication really are supurb talents is my number#2 source of headaches (Number#1 being our guilds alt night raids failing horribly at anub10hc)

I think too many players are fixated on what seems to benefit them directly , IE: I will stay alive better with 5/5 Divinity or I will do more damage with 5/5 Reck, rather than looking at their choices having a positive impact on how thier entire raid group operates. Thinking along the lines of if the tank is getting hit slower/reducing the damage of the blow then that healer will have more time to get clear of that FIAR IT BURNS without having to worry about you getting gibbed as they do so or spare some time to keep the 'nab in the toxin' up.

There really is too much me me me in this game sometimes
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Fenrìr » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:05 pm

I used to not spec it because our drood had it in his spec. So I spec'd elsewhere.

However, the trend I see on my realm is people not specing into TbtL and 5/5 Benediction.
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Re: A disturbing trend

Postby Epimer » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:19 pm

Fenrìr wrote:I used to not spec it because our drood had it in his spec. So I spec'd elsewhere.


So who would keep up the attack speed slow on Twin Jormungar? Or on Jaraxxus/adds? Or on Twins? Or on Anub?

"Someone else can do it" isn't a strong argument for not putting 2 points into one of the strongest mitigation talents available to you, because you're never guaranteed to have that someone else on your target 100% of the time.
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