Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

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Re: BT101: Rating Conversions

Postby theckhd » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:39 pm

Lythac wrote:
Theckd wrote:For each level above 80, the boss gains 0.2% chance to crit and reduces the chance for his target to avoid or block an attack by 0.2%.


The 0.2% increased crit chance per level comes from boss weapon skill being 5 higher, 5 * 0.04. Mobs increased avoidance chance of 0.2% per level works the same way.


Revision:
Theck wrote:For each level above 80, the boss gains 5 weapon skill, granting him an additional 0.2% chance to crit and reducing the chance for his target to avoid or block an attack by 0.2%. Thus, we've now got a 5.6% chance to be crit, and our chance to dodge, parry, block, and miss are now 9.4%, 9.4%, 9.4% and 4.4% respectively:
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Re: BT101: Rating Conversions

Postby theckhd » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:45 pm

Lythac wrote:Is it worth mentioning (under BT101: Rating Conversions and Caps) Expertise does not truncate?

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t38095-rete ... ost1078466

Revision: Underneath the expertise and defense sections, I've added a note about truncation.
Theck wrote:
  • Note that defense rating truncates, in that defense rating that doesn't bump you up to a new value of defense skill is "wasted". In other words, you get no avoidance benefit by going from 689 to 690 defense rating, whereas you do see a benefit going from 688 to 689.

  • Note that expertise skill does not truncate (unlike defense), despite not showing decimals on the character sheet. Thus, every point of expertise rating gives you a benefit, even if you're only going from 10 to 10.1 expertise skill.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:12 pm

Lythac wrote:level 80 vs ?? with 144 defense skill from gear -

?? has weapon skill of 415 vs 80.

Code: Select all
Base def  def from gear  UB strike   Total
  400         +144                    544    Uncrittable, Uncrushable
  400         +144         -200       344    Crittable, Uncrushable
  399         +144                    543    Uncrittable, Crushable
  399         +144         -200       343    Crittable, Crushable


Pretty sure this is how it works, base def never gets touched.

Looks like we were wrong:
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f63/4075 ... blows.html

Satrina wrote:Crushing blows are not nearly the factor now than they were in vanilla WoW and Burning Crusade. The big change in WoW 3.0 is that only mobs that are 4 levels higher than you can perform crushing blows*. Most raid tanks will never see one happen now as the tank will be level 80 and the world bosses are level 83. Here's the scoop on crushing blows anyway for completeness:


- Crushing blows hit for 150% damage
- Players never land crushing blows
- Only white damage (autoattacks) can be crushing blows. Spells and specials like Mortal Strike or Mighty Smash cannot be crushing blows
- Your chance to take a crushing blow is always checked against your level maximum of (5 x level) (from here: WoW-Europe.com Forums -> 20/04/05 Agility, Strength, Defense and AP)
- If your defense skill is at your level maximum, then mobs 4 or more levels above your level can land crushing blows with a basic 15% chance to do so.
- For every point of defense skill (not defense rating!) you are under 5 times your level, the chance of a crushing blow increases by 2%. (This has the side effect of having crushing blows landing even from same-level mobs if your defense score is much lower than your level maximum.)
- Defense from gear ONLY affects your chance to receive crushing blows if your defense skill is lower than 5 times your level (but it always gives all the benefits of increased dodge, parry, block, as well as reduction in chance to be critically hit)
- Defense skill added by gear does not affect your chance to receive crushing blows past 5 x level - you have the same chance to receive a crushing blow at 600 defense as you do at 400 defense (unless, of course, you have enough total avoidance to push crushing blows off the combat table.)

Some examples:


- A level 80 with 400 defense and no gear with defense rating on it has a 15% chance of getting a crushing blow from a level 84 mob
- A level 80 with 350 defense and gear with 200 defense rating on it has a 15% chance of getting a crushing blow from a level 84 mob
- A level 74 with 325 defense and no gear with defense rating on it has a 15% chance of getting a crushing blow from a level 78 mob
- A level 70 with 299 defense and no gear with defense rating on it has a 17% chance of getting a crushing blow from a level 64 mob

* As in past, it is surmised that "+4 levels" actually means "20 weapon skill higher than your level maximum defense skill". Since the adds in Thorim's arena crush level 80 players with Unbalancing Strike, this theory seems to be supported still. It also appears that Thorim himself has had crushing blows totally disabled.


I've included this information in the new Appendix on crushing blows. Going to give people a day or two to read over this before I post it in the Guides section.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Wrathy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:56 pm

sorry to derail the thread, but Theck, you are now officially Leet.

Nice post count...
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:52 am

Wrathy wrote:sorry to derail the thread, but Theck, you are now officially Leet.

Nice post count...

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Sadly, I had to post things this morning, so it was short-lived.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:27 pm

"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby culhag » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:41 am

theckhd wrote:Article posted. Direct link:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... tack-table

The link gets me a 404 error.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:55 am

Arg, so does going through Guides -> Advanced Training -> Attack Table.

It was working fine yesterday when I posted it. I'll hit up Aergis to see what happened and fix it.

<edit> Should be fixed now.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Arcand » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:26 pm

Works for me now, but I didn't try it before so my feedback isn't especially valuable.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:19 am

Arcand: This can probably be de-stickified to clean up the forum a bit if you like. It's now posted in the "guides" section, and I have a link back to this thread from the guide for comments and suggestions.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Arcand » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:49 am

Thanks - I'll consider that if I worry that we're getting too cluttered in here, but for the moment I think this post remains a good use of space. :)

I'm not a big fan of the new site interface, so if you disagree with me it's probably because you've made friends with the interface better than I have.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:17 am

Someone dug up an old EJ post by Chicken where he tested what type of attack each of our abilities counted as. They line up exactly with the classifications I gave them in the article. I've added the link to the references section.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby lythac » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:42 am

As you will probably see in your TPS thread something has happened to ShoR and can now be dodged/parried. Shows a parry here - Edge's WMO parse.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:24 am

Yup, it's also proccing seals now. Seems they changed it to a melee attack this patch.

I'll be updating once we have an idea whether this is a bug or whether this is an intended change.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:42 am

Updated to reflect the change to ShoR, and included a link to the testing that shows taunts are based on spell hit rating and miss chances.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:38 pm

How can you calculate if you are block capped/unhittable? Back in the BC days, I used a macro to test for the 102.4%, but I guess it is dated now I am level 80 and I can't get the new one from the macros sub-forum to work, viz:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 + 0.956/(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/4.91850*0.04))))

How does one compute this manually? I get that it tests whether total avoidance is 102.4%. I can see % chances for dodge, parry and block stats in the in-game character sheet under defences. Do I add these up? Then add 30% for block under Holy Shield? What about miss - is that just 5%? When I do all this, I get a number that seems too small (although maybe my gear is just too bad). Do the numbers on the character sheet include the contribution of defence? The macro seems a little more complicated (I am not following what's going on after the +5).

Sorry to ask such a basic question, but block cap and unhittable are mentioned so many times without quite explaining to the uninitiated how to compute it.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby lythac » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:26 pm

Avoidance = Miss from Def + base mob miss chance(5%) + Dodge + Parry
Block = Block + HS (30%)

Then if Avoidance + Block > 102.4% (vs ??) then you are block capped.

To get miss from def you need to use the formula here (tankspot) or refer to a table (the tooltip for miss from def is pre DR).

Code: Select all
Def Pre DR Post DR
540   5.60   4.29
541   5.64   4.31
542   5.68   4.33
543   5.72   4.35
544   5.76   4.38
545   5.80   4.40
546   5.84   4.42
547   5.88   4.44
548   5.92   4.46
549   5.96   4.49
550   6.00   4.51
551   6.04   4.53
552   6.08   4.55
553   6.12   4.57
554   6.16   4.59
555   6.20   4.61
556   6.24   4.64
557   6.28   4.66
558   6.32   4.68
559   6.36   4.70
560   6.40   4.72
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Lumerian » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:06 pm

This was very helpful to me thank you very much for sharing I am only a 63 ret pally now however I will respec to prot at about 75 anyway thanks again
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:46 am

Updated with dodge/parry % for bosses/mobs of different levels.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Arcand » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:39 am

Now I'm starting to think the number of stickies is in the yellow zone.

OP, would you care to...

a) Keep this current for Cata,

b) Dump this post and start a new one for Cata, or

c) Dump this post?
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:23 am

I intend to keep it current for Cataclysm, though it won't take that much of a rewrite. Right now I'm focusing on the MATLAB code, so it will be at least a few weeks before I have time to update it.

If you want to un-sticky it that's fine. I think it's a useful reference document, but it's also linked under the "Guides" menu.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby tobinbereznak » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:10 pm

I modified a version of the Block Cap macro I was using in 3.x to work for 4.0:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Chicken » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:32 am

tobinbereznak wrote:I modified a version of the Block Cap macro I was using in 3.x to work for 4.0:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
You can change the +5 into +20 (Or just add a separate +15) so it'll include Holy Shield as well.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:21 am

Updated for Cataclysm. Let me know if I missed anything.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Aerron » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:23 am

With the changes Blizz has made to the Weapon Skill mechanics, is the following still true?

For each level above 80, the boss gains 5 weapon skill, granting him an additional 0.2% chance to crit and reducing the chance for his target to avoid or block an attack by 0.2%.


Sorry if this is obvious, I'm back to the game after a long absence and relearning everything.
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