Sacred Shield

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Sacred Shield

Postby Griffonheart » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:16 am

With the SS changes, is it still wise to invest in Divine Sacrifice/Guardian talents for MT spec? If we skip them, where should the 3pts go? Without them, we still need the 3pts in Prot tree to proceed further, choices are: GF, IHoJ, Reckoning, Stoicism, and Divinity.
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Worldie » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:12 pm

If DS/DG remains as it is, it will become a 100% mandatory raid talent for the raid wide shield wall anyway.

If it gets changed and the effect is not applicable to prot paladins, then yes, there will be no reason to spec Divine Guardian anymore.
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Griffonheart » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:40 pm

But DG requires the activation of DS, no? And DS redirects damage to the paladin. If the paladin is a MT, I'm not sure if it's wise to use it while tanking the boss. If the paladin is not tanking, yes, DG would be a very powerful mitigation for the raid. I wish the Sacred Shield change doesn't go live.
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Worldie » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:21 pm

DG and DS are being changed.

DS will become party-wide damage reduction with redirected damage.
DG will add to DS a 20% raid-wide damage reduction component with no redirect.

Hence, put Prot pala in G8 alone, push DS, enjoy free DR
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:39 pm

That still doesn't work, because it won't cast if you don't have one other group member. The actual use will likely be just to cancelcast it for the 20% for 6 seconds without the redirect. (Which shows we're at the point where they need to either scrap it and start over or just give us a "reduces damage taken by the raid by 20% for 6 seconds" button.)
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:20 am

KysenMurrin wrote:That still doesn't work, because it won't cast if you don't have one other group member. The actual use will likely be just to cancelcast it for the 20% for 6 seconds without the redirect. (Which shows we're at the point where they need to either scrap it and start over or just give us a "reduces damage taken by the raid by 20% for 6 seconds" button.)

I thought they were going to redesign it again, to get around their inability to deal with the situation of the pally being partied with folks not in the instance?
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:44 am

The last I'd seen on it was the decoupling of the (nerfed) Divine Guardian duration from the Divine Sacrifice. Making it so the 20% doesn't break no matter what effectively removes the need for those kind of workarounds.
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Noradin » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:54 am

KysenMurrin wrote:The last I'd seen on it was the decoupling of the (nerfed) Divine Guardian duration from the Divine Sacrifice. Making it so the 20% doesn't break no matter what effectively removes the need for those kind of workarounds.

Yes, the activation is still linked, though.
I still think the whole thing should be a healing talent since it is more in line with what healers need/use. The protection tree is still not a tanking tree but just a place to put defensive talents for paladins regardless of spec. I don't see tanking talents in the other two trees below tier 3.
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Griffonheart » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:24 am

I don't see myself using it during MT because I would be in group with other people so I could benefit from certain party buffs, and if the boss uses any AoE abilities, it will deal enough damage to make MT dangerous, even if the rest of the raid have the shield-wall. However, if I'm not the MT at the time, I'd gladly use it timely. Without the 3 pts, I might put it in Reckoning so I could use Seal of Command during AoE, benefit from the extra multi-hit aggro. Extra aggro is extra aggro. We need the 3pt to progress up the tier in Prot anyway.

Not sure if Holy paladins would go this deep into Prot tree instead of Ret for the extra crits.
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby jathitimus » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:38 pm

Griffonheart wrote:Not sure if Holy paladins would go this deep into Prot tree instead of Ret for the extra crits.



Depending on gear and style, plenty of holy paladins are already skipping the crit talents.
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Griffonheart » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:38 pm

jathitimus wrote:

Depending on gear and style, plenty of holy paladins are already skipping the crit talents.


I'm very glad, because my second sec is Holy/Prot also ^^
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Worldie » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:59 pm

jathitimus wrote:
Griffonheart wrote:Not sure if Holy paladins would go this deep into Prot tree instead of Ret for the extra crits.



Depending on gear and style, plenty of holy paladins are already skipping the crit talents.

Basically every single raiding Holy Paladin gets DS/GS atm, due to it being extremely good for progression.

I don't see myself using it during MT because I would be in group with other people so I could benefit from certain party buffs,

Ehm, the only "party buff" which you may want would be a Tremor totem, i don't see any other buff you may want which is not raidwide.
Hence my point, G8 -> prot paladin alone for DS
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Elsie » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:16 pm

Ehm, the only "party buff" which you may want would be a Tremor totem, i don't see any other buff you may want which is not raidwide.
Hence my point, G8 -> prot paladin alone for DS

Well, to be fair, there's also Grounding totem and Cleansing Totem. Also arguably another paladin's DS.

Would actually be interesting to have prot paladin grouped with another paladin. Paladin #2 uses DS for the prot paladin. Prot paladin uses DG and Paladin #2 uses divine shield for zero re-direct. Throw in some Bacon of light from holy and you're good to go.
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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Serv » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:45 am

I just want to ask a few questions to make some things clear to me. Since the 3.1 Bnet disaster i never tried again to enter the test realms, so here we go:

1. Are DS/DG still one Talent on our Action bars or are they now 2 skills that can be triggered seperated?
2. Will DG work if you are alone in a group? (linked to question one)
3. for the folks testing on PTR and espacially ICC: were there any situations where you could pop it without major threat to your health due to just insane incoming AOE dps?

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Re: Sacred Shield

Postby Griffonheart » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:27 pm

I saw the latest patch note on MMO-Champion, it says the change to SS has been reverted. Guess there's still some use for the DG talents.
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