Remove Advertisements

Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Roknroll » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:04 am

We got our paladin tank set up for this, and started working on it with him about 95% unhittable, which really wasn't possible. He was able to get unhittable using the Libram of Defiance, but w/o the block rating libram he just took too big of hits. He was maxed out in all defense gems with highest avoidance enchants all around. Ended up that changing food and elixirs was enough to get over 99% unhittable which has worked out fine. Agi food, mighty defense elixir, and mighty agility elixir are annoying, but we craft it as a guild. It's really not THAT expensive to make those elixirs since it's just for one person.

Threat was another major issue for us the first night or two in there. Having everyone stack helps out for the tank to pick them up, and he could usually get them off of healers quickly without issue. The major problem became our DPS pulling off the tank in the first 3-4 seconds of the adds showing up. Everyone's stacked in melee range, so the aggro threshold is smaller for the ranged and healers.

The best thing was for our prot paladin to just blow his Holy Wrath as soon as possible. He'd pick up the first two adds, drop a concecrate at the edge of the ice, and as soon as the 2nd two touch the concecration he pops holy wrath (usually stunning them off the ice). Along with Concecration, Seal of Command, and Hammer of the Righteous he's got a lot of threat. That 3 second stun just as the 2nd two adds are making it to the ice almost gaurantees he'll be able to get threat without them breaking off.

Another thing to note was the an issue we ran into with Holy Wrath Diminishing returns. To be safe and make sure we got a hit, we would have all 3 paladins (prot, holy, ret) pop Holy Wrath 1 second before Shadow Strike was going to go off. The problem was that each paladin's HW reapplied the stun but with the diminished duration. Even though they got hit with HW just before the shadowstrike cast, the stun would wear off and they'd get a cast off. If the prot paladin decides to HW off the bat to get aggro, make sure that only 1 paladin is casting HW to interrupt shadow strike. Another paladin could cast his HW about 0.5 - 1 second after that, just don't do it at the same time.
Roknroll
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:46 am

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Roknroll » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:23 am

Ragingsoul wrote:for some reason, I just can't figure out a gear with passive block caped. I tried in Rawr, trying with what I have in my bank, best I I can come up with is around 93% from avoidance+block, with around 43% block without holy shield.


What do you have in your bank? Have your guild help you out for some items too. The Lavanthor's Talisman from heroic Violet Hold is the best possible trinket for your block set. Next is the Onyxia quest turn in, both should be obtainable in under a week. Inexorable Sabatons are BoE so check the auction house every day. Do you still have your quest tanking neck from Malygos? You're also just going to have to bite the bullet and enchant/gem some of your main tanking gear for defense and avoidance.
Roknroll
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:46 am

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby holynite » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:13 pm

whats the text macro to enter to see what your mitigation/avoidance is at?
holynite
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:55 pm

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Belloc » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:07 pm

holynite wrote:whats the text macro to enter to see what your mitigation/avoidance is at?

A quick forum search on "unhittable macro" brought up this.

Code: Select all
/run local b,d,p,r,a=GetBlockChance(),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL) a=1/(.0625+.956/(r/122.9625)) ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable: %.2f%% Avoidance: %.2f%% Defense %+.0f rating",b+d+p+5+a,d+p+5+a,r-689))


Hopefully it is accurate :P
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Xequecal » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:11 pm

Roknroll wrote:
Ragingsoul wrote:for some reason, I just can't figure out a gear with passive block caped. I tried in Rawr, trying with what I have in my bank, best I I can come up with is around 93% from avoidance+block, with around 43% block without holy shield.


What do you have in your bank? Have your guild help you out for some items too. The Lavanthor's Talisman from heroic Violet Hold is the best possible trinket for your block set. Next is the Onyxia quest turn in, both should be obtainable in under a week. Inexorable Sabatons are BoE so check the auction house every day. Do you still have your quest tanking neck from Malygos? You're also just going to have to bite the bullet and enchant/gem some of your main tanking gear for defense and avoidance.


Lavanthor's Talisman is actually a huge pain in the ass. The odds of it dropping on any given H VH run are about 9%, if you did VH every day for a week you'd still have a less than 50% chance of getting it.
Xequecal
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:54 pm

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Xequecal » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:13 pm

Joanadark wrote:
With how fast those adds hit when you tank four, Damage Shield alone far outthreats a Paladin's entire arsenal.


I was referring more to snap-pickup threat. Warriors have a little bit of trouble with multi-mob snap threat if they can use shockwave since it will cause stun DR.
Once all four adds are on the tank, threat is largely irrelevant. A hunter pet could stand there tanking them and hold aggro with all the AE Tricks of the Trade going on.


I was always curious about this since I don't play a Warrior, can't you just have a Warrior reactively interrupt Shadow Strike with Shockwave? Once all four adds are on him, Damage Shield alone will keep them there, so he can just stand there and do nothing but hover over the Shockwave hotkey. 1.5s cast should be more than enough to get it if you do it like this.
Xequecal
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:54 pm

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Roknroll » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:21 pm

Xequecal wrote:Lavanthor's Talisman is actually a huge pain in the ass. The odds of it dropping on any given H VH run are about 9%, if you did VH every day for a week you'd still have a less than 50% chance of getting it.

Yes, but still potentially faster to get than a Naxx 25 or Ulduar drop. Those you can only try for once a week, and finding a full group to do it is really a pain. Lavanthor's Talisman is a pain because you'll have to run the instance a lot, but it can be done daily, and can be taken care of before getting to Anub'arak easier. The fewer people that are required to help you get gear (especially in old content), the easier an item is probably going to be.

holynite wrote:whats the text macro to enter to see what your mitigation/avoidance is at?

Problem is that the macro code does not take into account diminishing returns. Best bet is to use a program like Rawr with all your gear on, then choose all your raid buffs, turn off the 'use sacred shield' option, and then check your avoidance stats.
Roknroll
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:46 am

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Awyndel » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:53 pm

My guild killed the twins tonight, gz to us :D . I am trying to prepare for anub as best as possible. I was wondering about a few things concerning gear.

We already decided that we are going to use the 2 add tank strategy, because it is easier to gear for it, and we are more comfortable about pulling it off.

Now as I understand the chances of the holy shield dropping off are quite low considering we will have about 45+% avoidance. So I am going to go for as much BV as possible, keeping 101.6% obviously.

Now a few things are not clear to me:

Is stacking BV to no end always best? Is there a point where it becomes too much?

How much hp are needed to survive spikes when stuff goes wrong? Just to balance health with BV.

Is it really worth it sacrificing 80 stamina and 80 avoidance rating just to gain 84 BV? Cloak for example.

Do I Gem straight str? Wouldn't defence be better to reduce the chances of holy shield dropping off, since str gives meh BV?

Do I balance some avoidance into the enchants where the str ones are just too damn low to have better chances of the holy shield staying up?

Is nature resist ( or any other resist for that matter ) worth it? How would I best pick it up? Cold resist for the dot anybody?

My guild is considering giving me 2 trophies for the head and legs. Wouldn't the 232 head be better coz it has less stam and the same BV? Wouldn't the trophy be in better hands of a dps so we can actually make the kill? Not sure if if that 30 or so BV is gonna save the day.

Thnx in advance :P
User avatar
Awyndel
 
Posts: 672
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:49 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:40 am

Basically you can go happily with 35kish raidbuffed, which equals to about 28k unbuffed. Remember that the least HP you got, the better.

In order to completely negate the damage you need around 5k bv, so until that, keep stacking it. Check the two pics on the main post to have an idea of the kind of damage you will be getting.

IF and i say IF you get a unlucky set of unavoided adds and holy shield falls and you get a few unavoided unblocked hits, you still got Ardent Defender.

Also added HotR glyph and elixirs.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13347
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Meyrinn » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:53 am

Belloc wrote:I cannot stand it when people hide behind "bring the player, not the class."

How about adjusting your strategy if your tanks are dying? Permastunning/CCing the adds has been a strategy mentioned on this forum in the past. That is... wait for the Shadow Strike cooldown, holy wrath, Shockwave, Shadowfury, Dragon's Breath, dead adds. Other combinations of spells work as well. Tanking cooldowns can be similarly leveraged, as I imagine that your tanks don't just die the moment the adds start beating on them.

Block tanks are hugely helpful, but you can plan around having a weak tank. All of the cooldowns required for such a strategy have short cooldowns. Surely your tank can survive until the Shadow Strike cooldown is approaching?

I apologize for the inherent rudeness in my opening line, but I really cannot tolerate people using that line against Blizzard. That line wasn't intended for hard mode fights. That line does not even apply in your situation.


I'm not hiding behind anything.

You should also check your suggestions before you give them. You CANNOT CHAIN STUN the adds anymore. The Holy Wrath Permastun was fixed over a month ago. Dragon's Breath is a disorient that will be removed immediately from a tick of damage, plus if they do happen to inch forward they will disable your block and you're dead.

Do you have any idea how much damage a non blocking tank takes on this fight? Are we supposed to recruit another tank for one fight? 3 Weeks of farming Naxx and Ulduar and not 1 piece off the block set needed has dropped. I'm sorry I didn't plan months ahead of time to build a set using gear from content thats 2 tiers behind the current.

Plus read my post, Shadow Strike isn't the problem. Its the random spikes in damage because my block set isn't high enough yet during Phase 3. I'm seeing hits over 8k even when they are blocked. Phase 3 isn't a short phase and I doubt you have enough cooldowns to cover the whole phase. RNG is killing me, no healer can heal through the kind of damage i'm taking in 1 second. RNG is screwing us with drops in Naxx and Ulduar. And all this because we don't have 2 block tanks. The mechanics of the fight are just not balanced across the tanks. Our DK and Druid tank aren't idiots and know how to do their job. But 2 adds with under a 1 second swing timer that can hit for 16k to 17k a hit isn't something that can be sustained for the 3+ minutes of Phase 3.
Meyrinn
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:03 am

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Joanadark » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:36 am

Just to throw this out there...
If you had a paladin assigned to freedoming a DK add tank every add wave, a skilled player could probably simply kite his add pair back and forth accross the double patch of frost and barely ever get hit at all. Threat would be fine with aoe tricks of the trades going on and pestilencing diseases onto the mobs off of the boss and with a DnD down.
In fact, there was a brief rumor right after the Holy Wrath nerf that this was exactly how a couple of the guilds who got repeat kills were doing it.

While it requires a paladin who doesnt suck at giving well-timed freedom, at least a couple rogues in the raid comp, and a tank who doesnt suck at moving with his mouse, this is a completely viable way of tanking adds on this fight as a non-block tank.
Is it harder individually on that tank? Sure I guess. But its 100% doable.

I'm not trying to cause drama but DKS AND BEARS ARE FINE L2P i mean what?
O.o
Arkham's Razor: a theory which states the simplest explaination tends to lead to Cthulu.
Joanadark
 
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 7:09 pm

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Roknroll » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:43 am

The problem is that when the add pack did cross the tank's path and was able to hit the him, he'd probably get insta killed. With a long lull of no damage, healers would probably have slightly delayed reaction time. The adds have a swing timmer of about 0.3 seconds, so that would be 12 hits in under 1 second. Throughout the course of the add waves, the RNG would most certainly have the tank instantly killed on one of the waves. Fully stacked with expose weakness, the adds hit for around 10k-15k. It would only take 4-5 hits to kill the tank. With 65% avoidance your tank could easily take 4-5 hits in under 1 second.

There's also the issue of kiting them back and forth to the point where they get out of range of most AoE. Either the raid would have to adjust to burn the adds down which would lower dps on Anub, or the raid would take longer to kill the adds which could mean overlapping waves.
Roknroll
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:46 am

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby fafhrd » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:22 am

I'm skeptical of threat not being an issue on a kiting tank just from 2-3 tricks every 30 seconds and whatever spells the tank can cast while moving. Especially when trying to hold against melee classes who may be cleaving off particular adds (although I suppose most would just cleave off the boss whenever positioning is tight enough to keep things in range - also in the kiting strat they wouldn't be able to follow the adds without freedom on themselves anyway). Can DKs really hold aoe threat that well?
ImageImage
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
User avatar
fafhrd
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Arianne » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:06 pm

You could change the position of the adds to anub and kite them from left foot to right foot to keep them in range of cleaves. I dunno about aggro - maybe an unholy DK (they do a ton of DPS so theoretically a tank version would do a ton of threat).
Arianne
 
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:22 pm

Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Xequecal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:17 pm

fafhrd wrote:I'm skeptical of threat not being an issue on a kiting tank just from 2-3 tricks every 30 seconds and whatever spells the tank can cast while moving. Especially when trying to hold against melee classes who may be cleaving off particular adds (although I suppose most would just cleave off the boss whenever positioning is tight enough to keep things in range - also in the kiting strat they wouldn't be able to follow the adds without freedom on themselves anyway). Can DKs really hold aoe threat that well?


A Frost DK could do it easily with Howling Blast, Glyph of HB, and D&D/Glyph of D&D. Honestly with that combo I'd be worried about ripping the adds off the other tank by accident, Frost DK AoE threat is immense.
Xequecal
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:54 pm

PreviousNext

Return to T9: Argent Coliseum / Koralon

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests
?php } else { ?