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how much threat do you pull?

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how much threat do you pull?

Postby sgtmoody » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:59 pm

I'm at a point were I feel my threat needs a little work. I pull around 5-7k single target threat. it jumps all around between 5 and 7k and I'm pretty sure its my rotation which I am now working on improving. I was just curious what others are pulling on single targets so I have a general idea of what I should be aiming for.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby xstratax » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:26 pm

It was my understanding that 7-9k single target TPS was about the tops for T9 geared tanks, so 5-7k isnt bad at all, depending on your gear level.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby daemonym » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:54 pm

my threat according to omen is anywhere from 6k-8k with 10m quel serrar and KT naxx shield (i like my sub 20 rolls). the only threat pieces i'm wearing is the t9 helm and accuracy enchant, not counting all the expertise i have on t9 gear.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby æ » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:28 pm

9001 TPS or so.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby Arjuna » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:47 pm

I do enough...
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby chrisronline » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:32 am

In my T8.5/9.5 "cap" gear (in which I am hit and expertise soft capped) with full raid buffs, I can usually sustain around 8k TPS depending on the fight. In my threat gear, I can usually sustain around 10k TPS which I use for a fight like Twins so our 12k DPS mages do not pull off me :)
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby Meloree » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:55 pm

On "non-gimmick" fights, in progression MT gear, with normal amounts of movement, around 8k tps, give or take, sustained. On Omen, anywhere from 5k to 13k tps, depending on when I glance at it... some day I'll just turn off the tps column, it's useless.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby agelaus » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:38 am

I average 4-5k on heroics...my absolute highest is 13k tps on patchwork 10 man. Did 3500 dps that fight...It was sweet :D
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby Angella » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:08 pm

I have yet to find a dps that can pull threat off me. Haven't cared about threat in an expansion or two.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby Jazmine » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:16 am

Are u guys testing w/ every possible synergy raid buffs possible or what?

If I am doing a 10 man raid with almost no synergy buffs to me and no MD/Tricks, I'd probably only avg 5-6k.

In a 25man raid w/ full buffs and maximized synergy with MD/Tricks, I can prolly sustain around 9-10k.

None of you guys stated the buffs (might, kings, haste, vamp, hunters mark, etc) you have as if it makes no diff in threat.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby jere » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:38 am

Jazmine wrote:Are u guys testing w/ every possible synergy raid buffs possible or what?

If I am doing a 10 man raid with almost no synergy buffs to me and no MD/Tricks, I'd probably only avg 5-6k.

In a 25man raid w/ full buffs and maximized synergy with MD/Tricks, I can prolly sustain around 9-10k.

None of you guys stated the buffs (might, kings, haste, vamp, hunters mark, etc) you have as if it makes no diff in threat.


Be careful about using the phrase, sustain. What Omen shows you is not what you sustain. You really can't sustain a specific amount of threat in any fight unless all the stars align anyways. What you should typically care about is spike TPS and average TPS and how they apply to a fight in general. I think WoL does a decent breakdown of your threat over the whole fight, which is pretty useful too. You'll find, looking at those graphs, that your threat actually varies pretty wildly in most fights.

In full 25 man setup, Omen floats around 7-8k on average (9-10k if I am in a fight with some special mechanic that permits it). In heroics, it depends on the group/gear. I can be at 4-5k or 6-7k depending. Again, though, that is just what omen says, which really isn't much of a measure.

Threat parses show lower numbers though, because they show your average threat.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby Meloree » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:51 am

jere wrote:Be careful about using the phrase, sustain. What Omen shows you is not what you sustain. You really can't sustain a specific amount of threat in any fight unless all the stars align anyways. What you should typically care about is spike TPS and average TPS and how they apply to a fight in general. I think WoL does a decent breakdown of your threat over the whole fight, which is pretty useful too. You'll find, looking at those graphs, that your threat actually varies pretty wildly in most fights.

...

Threat parses show lower numbers though, because they show your average threat.


To be clear about my previous post, then, I was referring to sustained (parsed) PERSONAL TPS (IE, not counting any trickes or MDs), with full 25-man raidbuffs, on your "average non gimmicky fight with some but minimal movement requirements". That's pretty handwavy, I know. I don't know how to extract TPS from WoL, but WMO includes both sustained and "time on target" TPS in its parser. I end up in the ballpark of 8 sustained tps in progression gear, and 10k tps in "threat heavy progression gear". It's difficult to be more precise than that unless you want to nail down a fight, and even then it'll be pretty strat dependant.

I don't really tend to believe most of the "12-13k" numbers people throw around as being sustained, because it's not a number you see on real content. Sure, I do 16k tps on Hodir, but that's the gimmick of gimmicks. I, like anyone else, have room for improvement, but I have a fair number of top20 threat parses according to WMO, and the majority of them are in progression-type gear with a progression 53/18 spec. I've never used any silly "19 tricks and hysteria" gimmicks. I think, therefore, that I have a reasonable understanding of what is achievable at the top end. As some references, my personal best for Algalon is 10100tps sustained, XT-hard - 8500 tps sustained (I also tank sparks, so that reduces the sustained tps some). Those are both in full progression gear. Those are both about as "tank and spank" as content gets, and both top20 parses, so that's the ballpark range of max tps in very high end progression gear, with perfect buffs.

With regards to 10s, I haven't the faintest idea. Paladins scale with both spellpower buffs and melee buffs, though, so we suffer somewhat with poor synergies. I don't raid Ulduar-10anymore, and there isn't really anything in ToC-10 that gives good sustained baselines with our strats. 7700 sustained TPS on Jaraxxus, I guess, is about as close as it gets, but I dps portals/adds, reducing boss TPS by some amount. Again, though, we raid heroic 10s with good synergies, so there isn't much falloff.

As an aside, if anyone knows how to extract threat information from WoL other than by hand, I'd love to know. I think it would be very handy, it's generally my preferred parser.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby blakk » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:51 pm

No MD or Tricks I get about 6-7k on single target normal fights. 9+ on patches. highest with Tricks was 15k on patches. Off tank had md and was only 6k but then again he had only 26k raid buffed so gear probably had that one.
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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby Auroris » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:15 pm

Tricks + MD = 18k to 21k tps

Fully raid buffed no MD/TRICKS - 10k to 11k

Hodir - 24k with Tricks (when they have the buff) 16k without

Val'kyr with Shield Libram - 14k to 17k

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Re: how much threat do you pull?

Postby jere » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:34 am

Perhaps we should start a thread were we post parses showing all this. It would be good for some of us to be able to go through and see how to improve our rotations so we can hit 10-11k average TPS. I know at tankspot we had a Patchwerk dps thread, so it could be something similar to that.
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