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[25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby fafhrd » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:35 am

Joanadark wrote:
Hm, can pets pop orbs? My pets would take like no damage from them if they count as AoE...


Im pretty sure they can, but do you really want to spend the whole fight in eyes of the beast?


Well for one of the bunched-up strats (particularly the door strat) you wouldn't need any eotb, you could just build a solid wall of pets on Stay and have them shield the raid. They don't even need to switch colors for vortexes, since they never get a color anyway and survive.

Wow, that'd even be a plus for the huge hitbox on devilsaurs (although it'd be a waste of DPS since you'd need to be BM to bring a devilsaur).

I suspect they can't pop orbs though, but can't really test till next week :/
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby crafty » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:38 pm

With some slight adjustment to the cheesy door strategy there is no RNG to speak of.

Position your tanks so that no orbs get beyond them into the doorway- we have a tank of each color and the damage they take is easily healed. At this point the people in the doorway can be of any color, so we have 5-6 of those with survivability cooldowns use the Light Essence (Hunters, Shadow Priests, Rogues, Mages). With this setup bloodlust isn't even required to burn down the shields and the fight becomes a total joke.

If we have a Hunter they stand outside of the doorway because of range issues. They are free to grab orbs, but their job isn't to soak. The 2 natural tanks can handle soaking without any assistance.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Soralin » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:44 pm

Robob wrote:
Soralin wrote:We're having some pretty serious trouble breaking shields on heroic. On a couple of kill videos I've seen a mod display in raid chat how much of the shield remains and a readout in raid chat of who did what damage to it.



Anyone know which mod this is? We are having trouble w/the shield and its very close. Id like to know an exact number though of how close we are.

It's a mod written specifically for the fight by one of their raid members. When I queried they weren't willing to share although that was a while ago when there was still competition for progression etc.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Trevize » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:18 pm

Mod is called Phoenix Style

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... style.aspx

/fen opens it up. I recommend turning off the raid announce if you are just doing for yourself...it is quite spammy.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:05 pm

We messed with twins a bit tonight.

Tried the door strat twice; I tanked both Angels. Got to sub-40% before a vortex killed us horribly.

We tried a few times with a "real" strat with positioning similar to FL's, but people started dying very, very quickly, and I don't think we did better than 70% on the 2-3 pulls.

The door strat seems more viable, once the healers figure out how to heal. I'm not certain if it's worse to be dependent on the RNG of skills, or 25 people to move correctly.

I'm thinking some gambling with the door might be more reliable for our raid at this point in time ... too many people with tunnel vision. But I also hate teaching bad habits. Sadness.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Avengeance » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:09 am

How we deal with the "Bad AOE" (as I call it, the AOE that isnt the raid colour) is quite simple: Holy Pala Aura mastery fire aura + bubble Divine guardian (we keep our raid on black colour, so the bad aoe is white aoe.). Healers would have pre-hot/shielded the raid up a bit. When the actual AOE hits, hybrid classes like ele shams or rets will be healing themselves - rest of the raid can use some survival CDs like iceblock, and then healthstones. There's almost no way you can die if you use healthstones. We also summon a soul well just before pull so if we get the AoE early on you can refresh your healthstones and use it again for the next set if you get another bad AOE.

Last night we actaully 1 shotted twins using door tactic so it's getting more and more reliable over gear upgrades. We did get the first spell as a blackshield tho, and we just ignored it all together and let it heal (from around 75% to 100%), and then we popped personal cooldowns to catch up on DPS, and he died just after 5th spell.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Worldie » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:29 am

Trevize wrote:Mod is called Phoenix Style

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... style.aspx

/fen opens it up. I recommend turning off the raid announce if you are just doing for yourself...it is quite spammy.

This addon does the same, is much lighter and isn't spammy
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... nitor.aspx
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Wrathy » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:45 am

fuzzygeek wrote:We messed with twins a bit tonight.

Tried the door strat twice; I tanked both Angels. Got to sub-40% before a vortex killed us horribly.

We tried a few times with a "real" strat with positioning similar to FL's, but people started dying very, very quickly, and I don't think we did better than 70% on the 2-3 pulls.

The door strat seems more viable, once the healers figure out how to heal. I'm not certain if it's worse to be dependent on the RNG of skills, or 25 people to move correctly.

I'm thinking some gambling with the door might be more reliable for our raid at this point in time ... too many people with tunnel vision. But I also hate teaching bad habits. Sadness.


Really the way I see it, is that if you don't have confidence in your ranged to play dodgeball, then the door strat and the rng of abilities is your way to go, especially if you are not looking to get the Tribute to Insanity. One wipe on bad luck is better than 10 on bad skill IMO.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Kishandra » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:42 am

Wrathy wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:We messed with twins a bit tonight.

Tried the door strat twice; I tanked both Angels. Got to sub-40% before a vortex killed us horribly.

We tried a few times with a "real" strat with positioning similar to FL's, but people started dying very, very quickly, and I don't think we did better than 70% on the 2-3 pulls.

The door strat seems more viable, once the healers figure out how to heal. I'm not certain if it's worse to be dependent on the RNG of skills, or 25 people to move correctly.

I'm thinking some gambling with the door might be more reliable for our raid at this point in time ... too many people with tunnel vision. But I also hate teaching bad habits. Sadness.


Really the way I see it, is that if you don't have confidence in your ranged to play dodgeball, then the door strat and the rng of abilities is your way to go, especially if you are not looking to get the Tribute to Insanity. One wipe on bad luck is better than 10 on bad skill IMO.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but using the door strat you can only interrupt one color heal? So you're basically counting on the wrong heal to go first, and then never occur again. Granted, most have enough dps to kill the twins by the 5th heal, so the chances of getting a "good" pull is 3/16.

Also, consider that divine sacrifice is getting nerfed to oblivion next patch and it's probably not terribly viable to heal through the opposite color vortex.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby fafhrd » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:45 am

No, the door strat expect to have to interrupt both color heals, it's just hard interruping the same color ones, and having to interrupt 2 of the same color ones back to back is unlikely in current gear. However if the first ability is one of these heals, you can just let it go though and save your cooldowns, they'll heal from 75 to full and you'll still kill them before the enrage.

Any of the single-color, no switching strats, of which the door strat is probably the simplest, just shifts the fight from being an execution check to being a gear check. If your raid (like mine) is bad at everyone following several instructions at once, but good at "Heal a lot now!" and "DPS a lot now!", the no switch strats work very well, simply because the vortex damage is easy enough to brute force, and the DPS requirements on the shield aren't that high, while the enrage timer on the fight isn't hard at all.

Our felmyst and eredar twins strats were pretty simple "everyone chug a protection pot and heal the raid like mad, oh yeah heroism the BM huntards again" strats too :D

As for DS being nerfed into the ground next patch, I at least have no intention of even zoning into ToC next patch since IC will be out, so it doesn't really matter.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Belloc » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:05 pm

I don't like the DS changes being called a nerf, even on this fight. Sure, the entire raid is only benefiting from a 20% DR, but everyone in your party gets additional damage reduction. Stick your 4 weakest players (those that can't feint, bubble, ice block, or otherwise keep themselves alive) in that party and, bam, healers have an easier time keeping those players up.

The DS change might be a slight nerf on Twins, but it will be a buff on other fights.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Avengeance » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:13 pm

You are meant to kick both shields - and it's ever so easy even if you get the bad shield. What we do is getting mages + warlocks + 1 or 2 others (like a rogue) to teleport/blink/sprint to grab the white portal 5 secs before a new spell is coming, and whole raid pre-switch to the other boss and nuke. If it isnt the black shield then switch back, if it is then blow BL and it would get kicked.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby kanst » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:28 am

So we finally killed this. We got ruined by candian thanksgiving as 4 of our best healers are canadian. We basically used the door strategy with a few wrinkles. All Melee is one color, all casters are the other color. We had 2 feral druids in full stam gear specced for tanking outside just soaking, they said they ran in and mangled every so often but most of the time they were just popping orbs. We used heroes, on the first shield regardless of color, and personal CDs on the second. On our kill we got kind of lucky that we didnt get a third shield, but at that point shields were dying pretty quick.

We have 2 holy pallies and 2 ret pallies. The holies were different colors, I was light, with shadow resist aura up. During dark vortex I bubbled, aura masteried, and divine sacrificed. The rets took care of the vortex's after the first rotation. We found this strategy worked really well once we got the dps used to it.

Yes there is a lot of raid damage but its pretty predictable so its not that hard to heal. In our strat the bear soakers take more damage then the tanks on some attempts, so the paladins were assigned a heal target and a bear to put their beacon on. Here is the WoL:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/Mm8QfeRf ... 705&e=6019
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby sakkdaddy » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:43 am

We also use a cheesy variation of the door strat. Half the raid is each color, and we use Aura Mastery + personal survival cooldowns for all "bad vortexes", and healers know which groups are which color and know exactly who to heal during which vortex. Our 2 tanks + 2 soullinked warlocks just block all orbs from hitting the raid. DPS is split onto both with a tank on each, and burning down shields isn't a real problem. The main flaw with the strat is that atm our dps isn't high enough to prevent a 5th special ability from happening, and often this is going to be a vortex while personal survival cooldowns aren't up. (2 dark vortexes in a row for example) When this happens we often lose a few raid members, but I think that even this can be avoided with better planning.

It is tempting to go back to the single color cheese strat though if you can still burn down the same colored shield with bloodlust.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Twin Valkyr

Postby Avengeance » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:19 am

Funny enough, last night our 5th spell was a bad shield and we didnt managed to kick it (a dced guy or 2), he healed from like 20% to 70%, but we still caught up the DPS and killed him 1 second before enrage....

Outgearing ftw.
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