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Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:51 pm

Holy shit, Feint does something now? When did that happen?
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby hoho » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:00 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Holy shit, Feint does something now? When did that happen?

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48659
Performs a feint, causing no damage but lowering your threat by a large amount, making the enemy less likely to attack you. In addition, reduces the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 50% for 6 sec.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:02 am

That's pretty bitchin.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Zaluthar » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:39 am

From all above information, I compiled some notes I can provide to the raid in chat.
Please provide feedback so I can improve these notes.

ONYXIA

Raid setup for 25 man: 3 tanks, 6-7 healers, 6 melee dps, 9-10 ranged dps

Raid setup for 10 man: 2 tanks, 3 healers, 2 melee dps, 3 ranged dps

Onyxia Strategy

Phase 1. MT tanks Onyxia with back to the wall. Melee DPS attack from the sides, best spot is a yard in front of her back leg.

Phase 2. Onyxia lifts off. 40 Whelps spawn, 2 tanks (1 for each side) will pick them up and bring them to the center for AoE. All DPS will help with the first wave of whelps. Hunters & rogues help with building threat on the tanks! Pop heroism/bloodlust when tanks have a firm aggro on the whelps.)

Healers get close to the tanks. When you get aggro (which you will), it will be easier for the tanks to get aggro back.

When Onyxia emotes for Deep Breath: run like hell for the sides of the room.

During phase 2, ranged DPS will focus on Onyxia. Melee DPS cannot attack Onyxia and will focus on Lair Guards (1st priority) and on Whelps (2nd priority).

The Onyxia MT will tank the Lair Guard. The Lair Guard does a nasty AoE which has a cast time. When you see this, melee DPS move 10 yards from the Guard. (Note: Lair Guards can be disarmed.)

Phase 3. Onyxia returns to the ground. Same as phase 1, but Onyxia will cast fear and lava will erupt from the ground. MT will tank Onyxia. The other tanks will get any whelps.

All Dps should focus first on bringing down any remaining Lair Guards. Then put all focus (melee and ranged) on Onyxia.

Shaman (in the tank party): use tremor totem. Priest: use Fear Ward on the tank. Try to dance around the lava.

Phase 4. Loot.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Belloc » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:11 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:That's pretty bitchin.

Yeah... it really pisses me off when rogues NEVER USE IT. Look at almost every fight currently in the game and you'll find uses for Feint. Onyxia, Beasts, Jaraxxus, Champions, Twins, Anub, Ignis, Razor, XT, Council, Kologarn, Auriaya, Hodir, Freya, Mimiron, Koralon, Algalon... and that's just normal modes. Pretty much every fight in the game has some predictable AOE damage, often times being a high amount of AOE damage. Halving that keeps you alive and keeps your healers happy.

edit: Awesome move, Tonic. Glad to see someone actually laying down and sticking to the rules they set. It definitely improved your run!
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Dakiros » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:56 am

Been my experience that most rogues don't even know about the added damage reduction, I didn't until someone pointed it out on a Koralon raid. Granted my rogue is obviously not my main toon but still, every rogue I've mentioned it to since then had no idea about the change to the ability.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Ocin » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:21 am

We've cleared 25 Ony 2xs now and the first time it wasn't so bad besides learning the basics of the fight and getting our first kill.

Last night was a horrible mess late in P2 and on the transition to her landing. Our holy priest would make it on most attempts to P3 and put a Fear Ward on me, but our other 2 priests would die each time. So, I had 1 Fear Ward and 1 Every Man for Himself whenever they were available. What happened was I'd get feared a ton and run off to my right 90% of the time, but slowly people would be getting hit with a breath or cleave and die. We did finally clear it, but what a mess. We have 2 shammies, but I'm not sure Tremor Totem kicked in at all.

Besides telling people to stop dying before P3 (which is what most of you will probably tell me), is there anything I can do when I'm not in an optimal situation with at least 2 priests up?

Edit: P3 I tanked her against the back wall, same as P1.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Jedah » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:45 am

Ok I posted before about having troubles on this fight, but I finally had a chance to run it on my fury warrior in a guild run to get the melee perspective on this fight.

It is my belief that all melee can hit her during P2, it's just that people don't understand the hitbox requirements... because they are, well... odd. You have to stand much farther away from Ony than you'd expect in order to whack her, but me, the ret paladin and the rogue were all able to maintain a reasonable amount of time on target, although it was frustrating trying to find that sweet spot when she moved. I suppose I'd compare it to Kologarn's arms.

So if your melee are still claiming they can't hit her in P2, I suggest you tell them to try harder.

As an aside, I also found it amusing that you get the achievement "She Deep Breaths More" even when you kill her before she has a chance to deep breath even once, lol
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Njall » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:19 am

Belloc wrote:If you bring two tanks, have each one pick a side.

If you bring one tank, have your healers stacked in the middle, on top of you, and gogo wings + consecrate.


Even with two tanks we've been happy to just collapse the raid into the centre and the pally tank(s) Consecrate and everyone just AOEs the heck out of them. It seems to work much faster than gathering them up and then bringing them into the AOE pile. We usually get about 10 seconds of uninterrupted quality time (often with Heroism) with Onyxia before the first elite shows up which really seems to help speed the phase up. Next time, I might just run to one of the caves and drop a consecrate just to boost the aggro acquistion process.

I do not know if this is the best way to do it but it seems to work for me and has the least number of "necessary moving parts"

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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Corpsicle » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:04 pm

Ocin wrote:We've cleared 25 Ony 2xs now and the first time it wasn't so bad besides learning the basics of the fight and getting our first kill.

Last night was a horrible mess late in P2 and on the transition to her landing. Our holy priest would make it on most attempts to P3 and put a Fear Ward on me, but our other 2 priests would die each time. So, I had 1 Fear Ward and 1 Every Man for Himself whenever they were available. What happened was I'd get feared a ton and run off to my right 90% of the time, but slowly people would be getting hit with a breath or cleave and die. We did finally clear it, but what a mess. We have 2 shammies, but I'm not sure Tremor Totem kicked in at all.

Besides telling people to stop dying before P3 (which is what most of you will probably tell me), is there anything I can do when I'm not in an optimal situation with at least 2 priests up?

Edit: P3 I tanked her against the back wall, same as P1.


Remember tremor totem is only party wide, not raide wide. If you have two shaman, I'd stick one with healers and one with you, both dropping tremor totem close to where it is useful for their respective groups. Also, if the shaman dies you lose the benefit of tremor totem of course, so stick the most reliable shaman in group with you. Make sure your shaman knows about cleave and how not to get hit while getting a totem near you. Also, tremor totem has to tick, so be prepared to eat a second or two of fear and then reposition Onyxia fast.

I had to do p3 once with no tremor, and fear ward only once and what a pain in the neck - constant war of attrition with 1 or 2 dying each fear. I did end up using divine shield on a particularly nasty fear where she ran me straight through to her tail and then flipped to face the entire raid. Make sure to set up a good cancelaura macro for Divine Shield though if you are going to use that as a fear break.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Dianora » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:12 am

Belloc wrote:
Grehn|Skipjack wrote:That's pretty bitchin.

Yeah... it really pisses me off when rogues NEVER USE IT. Look at almost every fight currently in the game and you'll find uses for Feint. Onyxia, Beasts, Jaraxxus, Champions, Twins, Anub, Ignis, Razor, XT, Council, Kologarn, Auriaya, Hodir, Freya, Mimiron, Koralon, Algalon... and that's just normal modes. Pretty much every fight in the game has some predictable AOE damage, often times being a high amount of AOE damage. Halving that keeps you alive and keeps your healers happy.

edit: Awesome move, Tonic. Glad to see someone actually laying down and sticking to the rules they set. It definitely improved your run!


They got to top that DPS meter. That means more than not causing wiping. It's in rogue's blood to top the DPS meter.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Eredor » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:20 pm

I'm just returning from many wipes from Onyxia 10 as the MT,although we all downed her many times in 10 & 25 in other roles (also 1 heal usually dps).

- P1 I'm tanking her, building huge aggro, always goes fine.

- P2 First wave of whelps from left + right well placed in the middle and AOE.
Then everything goes very fast & people die way too quickly.

1. People on Lair guards take a lot of damage from Ignite weapon (basically 50% of damage taken), although this is why we take a warrior MT2 (disarm) and a thief. What exactly do they have to do? I thought this was 100% avoidable.

2. I'm trying to aggro as much whelps as possible but this is not possible (or I am not good enough) as A. Healers (which are everywhere) take agro immediately & I do righteous defense but can't do it simultaneously. B. I can't be on both sides at once and C. Whelps have a tendency to appear while we have to avoid Onyxia's breath.

- Wouldn't the best placement for healers be in the middle (everybody should be within healing reach) ? This would enable me to easily take agro.

- So far i went to help on Lair Guards, should I focus 100% of my time on whelps?

- Should I try to stay as much as possible in the middle or go to a side & wait for whelps & hope it is the good side? So far the MT2 got the guard in the middle so that we can agro everything, should he on the contrary tank it away from the center?

Any help welcome.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby yappo » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:53 pm

Eredor wrote:2. I'm trying to aggro as much whelps as possible but this is not possible (or I am not good enough) as A. Healers (which are everywhere) take agro immediately & I do righteous defense but can't do it simultaneously. B. I can't be on both sides at once and C. Whelps have a tendency to appear while we have to avoid Onyxia's breath.

- Wouldn't the best placement for healers be in the middle (everybody should be within healing reach) ? This would enable me to easily take agro.

- So far i went to help on Lair Guards, should I focus 100% of my time on whelps?


Both tanks are involved in rounding the first wave of whelps up. Take one cave each. AoE and kite to middle, BOTH of you. Tank assigned to elites stop dps, whelp tank goes on an AoE berserk fest and peels all whelps off the other tank. AoE dps joins the killing spree and whelps die.

All healers hug the whelp tank.

If your dps is doing their job you shouldn't disturb your elite-add-tanking colleague. If not, TRY to taunt the "old" elite (preferably communicate this pre-pull) off your co-tank. It's either almost dead anyway OR you're going to wipe anyway :D

Ony will land on your head at the start of P3 if you're standing watch for new whelps, so the elite-add-tank will be very, very unhappy if you're lol-dps:ing the elites while Ony fears and happily proceeds to chew up your healers for lunch.
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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Njall » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:05 pm

Eredor wrote:1. People on Lair guards take a lot of damage from Ignite weapon (basically 50% of damage taken), although this is why we take a warrior MT2 (disarm) and a thief. What exactly do they have to do? I thought this was 100% avoidable.


Hmm. We usually 2 tank on Onyxia10. One handles whelps, the other the adds. Are they getting gibbed by the weapon or the fire nova? That is what was happening to our melee until words were spoken (run away from fire). Both take a while to cast so are avoidable.

2. I'm trying to aggro as much whelps as possible but this is not possible (or I am not good enough) as A. Healers (which are everywhere) take agro immediately & I do righteous defense but can't do it simultaneously. B. I can't be on both sides at once and C. Whelps have a tendency to appear while we have to avoid Onyxia's breath.


Have anyone whelped up run into your AOE - you are consecrating, right? - and peel them off you. This builds up aggro. Gone are teh days when a healer or DPS can just stand there and nuke away. Naxx has made a lot of folks sloppy and they don't seem to be relearning old tricks.

- Wouldn't the best placement for healers be in the middle (everybody should be within healing reach) ? This would enable me to easily take agro.


Depends. I like to have the healers in the middle, near to the consecrate and away from the tunnels but some healers swear by sitting on a Deep Breathe proof ledge so they can chaincast away happily.

- So far i went to help on Lair Guards, should I focus 100% of my time on whelps?


Stick with the whelps but be ready to taunt the elite off the MT when Onyxia starts to land. He doesn't need the distraction. Or vice versa. We usually have our MT handle the elites and the OT take care of the whelps.

Again, its really a matter of taste as to which task you get. But clearning the welps off the MT is tougher than pulling a single elite off with a taunt onto the OT.

- Should I try to stay as much as possible in the middle or go to a side & wait for whelps & hope it is the good side? So far the MT2 got the guard in the middle so that we can agro everything, should he on the contrary tank it away from the center?

Any help welcome.


I tend to stay in the middle when on whelp duty. But things do get dicey when the second set spawns. When that happens, the MT will usually go and get some of the whelps and bring them to me. The elite follows him (or better yet, novas to no effect) and he resumes tanking it after he's dropped off the mass of whelps into the AOE pile.

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Re: Onyxia 2.0 (patch 3.22)

Postby Njall » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:05 pm

Eredor wrote:1. People on Lair guards take a lot of damage from Ignite weapon (basically 50% of damage taken), although this is why we take a warrior MT2 (disarm) and a thief. What exactly do they have to do? I thought this was 100% avoidable.


Hmm. We usually 2 tank on Onyxia10. One handles whelps, the other the adds. Are they getting gibbed by the weapon or the fire nova? That is what was happening to our melee until words were spoken (run away from fire). Both take a while to cast so are avoidable.

2. I'm trying to aggro as much whelps as possible but this is not possible (or I am not good enough) as A. Healers (which are everywhere) take agro immediately & I do righteous defense but can't do it simultaneously. B. I can't be on both sides at once and C. Whelps have a tendency to appear while we have to avoid Onyxia's breath.


Have anyone whelped up run into your AOE - you are consecrating, right? - and peel them off you. This builds up aggro. Gone are teh days when a healer or DPS can just stand there and nuke away. Naxx has made a lot of folks sloppy and they don't seem to be relearning old tricks.

- Wouldn't the best placement for healers be in the middle (everybody should be within healing reach) ? This would enable me to easily take agro.


Depends. I like to have the healers in the middle, near to the consecrate and away from the tunnels but some healers swear by sitting on a Deep Breathe proof ledge so they can chaincast away happily.

- So far i went to help on Lair Guards, should I focus 100% of my time on whelps?


Stick with the whelps but be ready to taunt the elite off the MT when Onyxia starts to land. He doesn't need the distraction. Or vice versa. We usually have our MT handle the elites and the OT take care of the whelps.

Again, its really a matter of taste as to which task you get. But clearning the welps off the MT is tougher than pulling a single elite off with a taunt onto the OT.

- Should I try to stay as much as possible in the middle or go to a side & wait for whelps & hope it is the good side? So far the MT2 got the guard in the middle so that we can agro everything, should he on the contrary tank it away from the center?

Any help welcome.


I tend to stay in the middle when on whelp duty. But things do get dicey when the second set spawns. When that happens, the MT will usually go and get some of the whelps and bring them to me. The elite follows him (or better yet, novas to no effect) and he resumes tanking it after he's dropped off the mass of whelps into the AOE pile.

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