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[10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

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[10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Keion » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:14 am

Hi. After resubscribing after 3 months of not playing I joined a U10 PuG yesterday. We steamrolled the first 3 bosses but on Ignis we failed as both me and the shattering mage were first time in Ulduar. After the first wipe I learned to (well, most of the time) put the debuffed add into water at the time next add spawns, the mage however had problems shattering the adds and half of them resumed the attack when the brittle debuff faded. People from U10 guilds said that their OT and shatterer did not do much better on the first time so it is technically OK. How can add tank help the shatterer do his job better?

Another question, if add spawns just behind the boss what is the best way to spot/target him in time?

So you use Avenger Shield to pull adds? It slows down the add so you probably do not want to use it before the add is in fire, but simple taunt is not enough when you need reliable ranged aggro.
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Aubade » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:33 am

Keion wrote:Hi. After resubscribing after 3 months of not playing I joined a U10 PuG yesterday. We steamrolled the first 3 bosses but on Ignis we failed as both me and the shattering mage were first time in Ulduar. After the first wipe I learned to (well, most of the time) put the debuffed add into water at the time next add spawns, the mage however had problems shattering the adds and half of them resumed the attack when the brittle debuff faded. People from U10 guilds said that their OT and shatterer did not do much better on the first time so it is technically OK. How can add tank help the shatterer do his job better?

Another question, if add spawns just behind the boss what is the best way to spot/target him in time?

So you use Avenger Shield to pull adds? It slows down the add so you probably do not want to use it before the add is in fire, but simple taunt is not enough when you need reliable ranged aggro.


1.) You do not need a shatterer. You can do this fine by yourself, Just keep up your full rotation on the mob while it is brittle.

2.) The best current way to get reliable ranged aggro is taunt + exorsism. I normally drag them into the fire and just chill in there with the mob, maybe stun it on one side and run out to the other to get out for a bit but the damage is negligable.

3.) Zoom out, show nameplates, or use a macro.

4.) If you have decent (it's REALLLLY easy) raid damage, you can just OT the adds and kill the boss.


Edit: The elitist ass-hole in me wants to remind you that Ignis is the 2nd or 3rd boss, not 4th.
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby vegardhv » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:46 am

1.) You do not need a shatterer. You can do this fine by yourself, Just keep up your full rotation on the mob while it is brittle.


Yeah I tried doing this myself with Shield of Righteousness - killing the brittle worked out fine, but I found the risk was too big, as I took an insane amount of damage from the aoe when the brittle dies.
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Aubade » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:52 am

vegardhv wrote:
1.) You do not need a shatterer. You can do this fine by yourself, Just keep up your full rotation on the mob while it is brittle.


Yeah I tried doing this myself with Shield of Righteousness - killing the brittle worked out fine, but I found the risk was too big, as I took an insane amount of damage from the aoe when the brittle dies.



well IMHO your healers should be able to keep you at full hp 99% of the time and it shouldn't even be an issue. Taking damage is what we do
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Keion » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:59 am

Aubade wrote:1.) You do not need a shatterer. You can do this fine by yourself, Just keep up your full rotation on the mob while it is brittle.

What about AoE explosion? It's kinda hard to survive that damage in blockvalue gearset. Also I need to run and pick the next add at this time. What's the brittle explosion cap and duration in latest patch BTW?


Aubade wrote:2.) The best current way to get reliable ranged aggro is taunt + exorsism. I normally drag them into the fire and just chill in there with the mob, maybe stun it on one side and run out to the other to get out for a bit but the damage is negligable.

What about patch 3.2 with exo no longer instant?


Aubade wrote:3.) Zoom out, show nameplates, or use a macro.

Currently nameplates are shown only for targets a few yards from me. Is there any way to change it? (yes, I press 'v')

Aubade wrote:4.) If you have decent (it's REALLLLY easy) raid damage, you can just OT the adds and kill the boss.

You mean PuG-able damage? And PuG tank being attacked by damage buffed boss?

Aubade wrote:Edit: The elitist ass-hole in me wants to remind you that Ignis is the 2nd or 3rd boss, not 4th.

Back in TBC days my (well, no longer my) guild killed A'lar before the Void Reaver and Solarian, is it enough for you?
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Aubade » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:17 am

Keion wrote:What about AoE explosion? It's kinda hard to survive that damage in blockvalue gearset. Also I need to run and pick the next add at this time. What's the brittle explosion cap and duration in latest patch BTW?


5k IIRC and i don't remember what the duration is, i believe last time I did it it was enough for 3 shield attempts to crit. And yes, if a single healer can't keep you up through that they don't deserve to be in ulduar It's only 20k~ ish damage and you only take it once every 45 seconds.


Keion wrote:What about patch 3.2 with exo no longer instant?

Your taunt will have 2k + damage attached to it.

Keion wrote:Currently nameplates are shown only for targets a few yards from me. Is there any way to change it? (yes, I press 'v')

zoom out and click, or make a macro.

Keion wrote:You mean PuG-able damage? And PuG tank being attacked by damage buffed boss?

No, not puggable damage. There's a solution though, don't pug Ignis.
how hard the MT is being hit shouldn't be any of your concern.
Keion wrote:Back in TBC days my (well, no longer my) guild killed A'lar before the Void Reaver and Solarian, is it enough for you?

/equip hat of trolling.

Your guild was retarded, Loot Reaver was ezmode. Everyone knew it went Loot reaver -> A'lar -> solarion -> Kael'thas.


/unequip hat of trolling
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Smite-Turalyon » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:16 am

I always headed the add off and gave it a shield bash/judgement to the face to pick it up. Save my taunts for when it goes molten and agro acts a bit wonky. I also wouldn't worry to much about AS'ing the mob to grab it. If you are getting quick shatters and building up the debuff as you should - you should have plenty of time before the next add. I generally run back to Ignis and get a judgement up for the raid.

Quickest way to target would be to make a /tar macro.

I also wouldn't recommend being the guy dragging around the adds and shattering them. Use that time to move on to the next add and refresh judgements on Ignis.
If the mage was having problems shattering, it was his fault and not yours. IIRC, he just needs to use a big nuke and hit for a certain amount of dmg to make the add shatter. Taking the add dmg is also bad imo, last time I tanked and took a brittle it damn near killed me. Maybe it crit or something, I dunno but there is no reason to take it.
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Belloc » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:05 am

A cast time on Exorcism won't make any difference unless you are currently tanking an add, which should never be the case. 1.5 seconds is nothing if you can properly identify where the add is going to spawn (which is simple: Focus the boss. When he casts "Activate Construct," look up. A flame will fly from the top of the boss to the area where the add spawns. Easy).

The add explosion does hurt, I'll admit (20k, not counting resistances), but you should always be topped off anyway. You're a tank.

Personally, I just wear my main tank set (it's what I wear for everything that I tank) and ShoR the adds when they go brittle. If it doesn't crit, I might call out for a backup person to kill it.
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Braundo » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:34 am

Belloc wrote:When he casts "Activate Construct," look up. A flame will fly from the top of the boss to the area where the add spawns.

Huh, I never noticed that before, even with my camera zoomed out to 50. Probably because he's so damned tall.
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Horanur » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:19 pm

I highly suggest the tank n' spank method of doing this. It eliminates so many crappy problems associated with this fight. Have your tank with highest avoidence tank the adds. (Although a block set may work better in 10 man). You'll want 2 decent healers and a 3rd to help towards the end if they aren't top notch. A paladin healer owns this strat.

The pros:

No movement, max damage.
No video lag from the massive fire he spits everywhere.
No shatter damage.
No threat issues.
Nobody will die to random adds in raid when they spawn on the other side of the map through a flame.
Practically guarantees the "Stoking the Furnace" achievement

Cons:
You need to have a good avoidence set. He starts hitting hard towards the end and block gear won't cut it
Adds a DPS benchmark to the fight
Requires consistant heals (but every healer has told me this is FAR easier than the "normal" way of doing it)
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Discus » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:09 am

My casual noob guild is just starting Uld and we're finding the bosses up to Ignis very easy. However Ignis is causing us problems. We've been using the kite boss method (Warrior MT and me on add shatter duty). But we're having real issues shattering the adds, before the next one spawns etc etc.

I'd like to try the tank n' spank method mentioned here, with me just picking up the adds rather than messing about trying to shatter them. But WHERE do we tank Ignis to avoid him casting fire everywhere? Would in the water facing away from raid work?
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Epimer » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:09 am

Yep.
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Belloc » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:19 am

If shattering adds.
Code: Select all
____
WWWW\   I
WWWWW\ ftf
WWWWW| fff
WWWWW/ fff
WWWW/


If not shattering adds.
Code: Select all
____
WWWW\
WWWWW\
WWWWW| tI
WWWWW/
WWWW/



W = water
I = Ignis
t = tank
f = fire patch
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:21 am

Discus wrote:I'd like to try the tank n' spank method mentioned here, with me just picking up the adds rather than messing about trying to shatter them. But WHERE do we tank Ignis to avoid him casting fire everywhere? Would in the water facing away from raid work?



If your dps and healers are up to it, you can do the water method. (Literally, tank him in the water facing away from the raid - the scorches are extinguished.) All dps ignore the adds, stand absolutely still and dps the boss as quickly as possible. If your dps is NOT up to parr, you're going to be overrun with adds and the tank is going to get gibbed if the healers can't keep up with the incoming damage.
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Re: [10] Ignis - reliable shattering?

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:22 am

Horanur wrote:Requires consistant heals (but every healer has told me this is FAR easier than the "normal" way of doing it)

Yeah, I've heard that a lot as well. It's less fiddly for sure.
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