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[Frost DK] Dual Weilding

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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Fenris » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:44 am

Just changed spec on my dk from 2h tanking to dw.

Cant say to have tested much so far,but at least it seems fun to play,the only problem is how hard it is to stay at crit-immunity leveI Found out that i have to use a teldrassil protector for the 44def (and that puts me at 530) and then rely on the sigil to reach 540 :?
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Viycktor » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:38 pm

I was Unholy 2-H dps before patch. I specced into the wierd Unholy 2-H Obliterate build post patch and found it weird and also my dps numbers dropped a little bit. (Though EbonP is pretty darn awesome to bring to a group)

I won one of the 1-H maces in H ToC off a greed one night and had a blue 1-H sword saved from a greed win from H CoT... so I decided to try DW Frost dps (3/51/17) but without a magic damage debuff on the boss, I'm not sure how much of a benefit I'm getting from BCB vs more points in frost (because I pug alot, the threat reduction talents at helpful for running with a less geared tank). Now I've got a 2nd mace from H ToC and am really liking the numbers I've putting out. I out dpsed comparably geared 2-H Blood guys in a Sarth pug last night!

My target dummy tests have shown that Blood Presence is the way to go for me right now, though unholy is close it's still a couple hundred dps behind with a tight rotation... even if I do cap RP sometimes. My white damage and necrosis/BCB hits will scale with my hit rating - which is *just* enough to never miss with specials and that haste rating, so my current strike-based gearing (8% hit with specials, expertise capped) favors BPres. I don't know where the trade-off comes with raid buffs (some AP buffs, some +hit buffs), but I could see on fights where you have alot of target switching or alot of time away from the boss (both for run speed and speed of getting diseases up) favoring UPres a bit. It's fun though!

To the OP: I feel DW frost dps can be competitive right at 80. The hit cap for specials is easier to reach with 'nerves of cold steel', and strike damage feels comparable. The only trick is the weapons, as decent 1-handers seem a little more rare than 2-handers. But not too much, even the AT has a decent slow 1-hand option, and I think there's a crafted ilvl200 epic...
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby TzumaNew » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:31 pm

Viycktor wrote:I won one of the 1-H maces in H ToC ... Now I've got a 2nd mace from H ToC and am really liking the numbers I've putting out.

Viycktor wrote:To the OP: I feel DW frost dps can be competitive right at 80.

Viycktor wrote:The only trick is the weapons, as decent 1-handers seem a little more rare than 2-handers. But not too much, even the AT has a decent slow 1-hand option, and I think there's a crafted ilvl200 epic...
Youre extremely lucky to see and win the 1h dps mace from H.ToC. Twice. Im sure that plays a part in your opinion. ;)

For the majority, who arent extremely lucky SOB's, its not quite that cut and dry as your options are extremely limited outside of raiding (seals blue hander, and titansteel) for slow/slow dps 1 handers, and I havent seen any parces that show that the Crusher and Titansteel being able to pull what an easier to obtain 2h puts out. That could however be due to lack of finding the right post, but id love to see one if it exists.

However, I will say, when you first hit 80 its extremely important to play any spec that fits you. DK is much more about what rotations youre comfortable with, and not which one is best. IF DW is a style you like, be damned with what weapons you have and work on your ability to keep a tight rotation/understand the priority system.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby iobi » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:38 am

I too won the Maces from H ToC in 2 days and have been sporting them for a while now. Ive been switching between 2H Blood and DW Frost and so far, it is much easier to manage the DW build as far as rotations go and am normally top 3 dps on most of our run.

My DK's name is Krozragal in Earthen Ring US if you want to armory him.

I really want to get to that magic 6K DPS, but i just cant seem to break 5K except for Thaddius last week pulling close to 8K (yay for gimmick fights!)

Thanks
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Viycktor » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:31 pm

TzumaNew wrote:For the majority, who arent extremely lucky SOB's, its not quite that cut and dry as your options are extremely limited outside of raiding (seals blue hander, and titansteel) for slow/slow dps 1 handers, and I havent seen any parces that show that the Crusher and Titansteel being able to pull what an easier to obtain 2h puts out. That could however be due to lack of finding the right post, but id love to see one if it exists.

However, I will say, when you first hit 80 its extremely important to play any spec that fits you. DK is much more about what rotations youre comfortable with, and not which one is best. IF DW is a style you like, be damned with what weapons you have and work on your ability to keep a tight rotation/understand the priority system.

It's true that luck plays a factor in it. (I didn't even consider DW frost until I won one of the H ToC 5-man maces on a 'greed' roll -nobody wanted it)

But for 2-H dps I was just using the Titansteel 2-H at before. So I see the Titansteel Bonecrusher as an option. And the Argent Tournament (Seals) 1-H is a good slow one as well (I was literally about to buy it when a tank asked me to dps H ToC, and said it'd drop for me so don't bother buying and runeforging, and it did -amazingly), both are available very shortly upon turning 80 (depending on if you were using the AC dailies to level) -those are basically the equivalent slow ilvl 200 epics (not counting the Krol Cleaver, which is a nice world drop, but probably costly off the AH) to the 2-handers: Titansteel Destroyer/AT 2-H/H HoL Axe.

If you're looking at non-PvP blues though (ilvl 200), there are quite a few 1-handers options that put out good dps:
- revered with Ebon Blade (*)
- revered SoH Axe
- 2 drop in H VH (not off last boss, but those aren't bad odds for the random bosses)
- 1 in H AN
- 1 in H UK
- 1 that's not ilvl200 but it still really good from regular UP

I'm not sure about quest rewards, but if you're looking to start right at 80 using DW frost, it's not impossible and they drop in the relatively quick/easy Heroics. As a DK, you'll already have alot of rep with KotEB, so those weapons are certainly an option (grab 2). If I were looking to do DW DK DPS as a new 80 without gold, I'd go visit my good buddies in Icecrown and snag some sweet one-handers.

You're not really in any worse of shape than any other spec starting out as DW dps at 80. At least not from what I can tell by shifting between my Unholy Oblit spec and DW Frost spec in Rawr with lower level gearsets. But Rawr recently fixed a bug that was overstating frost strike damage. It now matches my unbuffed target dummy dps alot better.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Kiorken » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:51 am

Viycktor wrote:
TzumaNew wrote:For the majority, who arent extremely lucky SOB's, its not quite that cut and dry as your options are extremely limited outside of raiding (seals blue hander, and titansteel) for slow/slow dps 1 handers, and I havent seen any parces that show that the Crusher and Titansteel being able to pull what an easier to obtain 2h puts out. That could however be due to lack of finding the right post, but id love to see one if it exists.

However, I will say, when you first hit 80 its extremely important to play any spec that fits you. DK is much more about what rotations youre comfortable with, and not which one is best. IF DW is a style you like, be damned with what weapons you have and work on your ability to keep a tight rotation/understand the priority system.

It's true that luck plays a factor in it. (I didn't even consider DW frost until I won one of the H ToC 5-man maces on a 'greed' roll -nobody wanted it)

But for 2-H dps I was just using the Titansteel 2-H at before. So I see the Titansteel Bonecrusher as an option. And the Argent Tournament (Seals) 1-H is a good slow one as well (I was literally about to buy it when a tank asked me to dps H ToC, and said it'd drop for me so don't bother buying and runeforging, and it did -amazingly), both are available very shortly upon turning 80 (depending on if you were using the AC dailies to level) -those are basically the equivalent slow ilvl 200 epics (not counting the Krol Cleaver, which is a nice world drop, but probably costly off the AH) to the 2-handers: Titansteel Destroyer/AT 2-H/H HoL Axe.

If you're looking at non-PvP blues though (ilvl 200), there are quite a few 1-handers options that put out good dps:
- revered with Ebon Blade (*)
- revered SoH Axe
- 2 drop in H VH (not off last boss, but those aren't bad odds for the random bosses)
- 1 in H AN
- 1 in H UK
- 1 that's not ilvl200 but it still really good from regular UP

I'm not sure about quest rewards, but if you're looking to start right at 80 using DW frost, it's not impossible and they drop in the relatively quick/easy Heroics. As a DK, you'll already have alot of rep with KotEB, so those weapons are certainly an option (grab 2). If I were looking to do DW DK DPS as a new 80 without gold, I'd go visit my good buddies in Icecrown and snag some sweet one-handers.

You're not really in any worse of shape than any other spec starting out as DW dps at 80. At least not from what I can tell by shifting between my Unholy Oblit spec and DW Frost spec in Rawr with lower level gearsets. But Rawr recently fixed a bug that was overstating frost strike damage. It now matches my unbuffed target dummy dps alot better.


Same dilemma on Enhance Shammy. Have to look for those slow 1handers. Luckily, the mace for HTOC is popular, and I am working on my second one for off. The Key, which is a nice slow 1h Axe from HVH that drops off Lavanthor, is a nice alternative until the mace drops. DW Frost DPS is very very competitive right now
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby SherKhan » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:23 am

Hello all,
First post here, So...here goes.

With the information in this thread; http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=25611&rb_v=viewtopic

And,

perhaps if we can agree on that 56 expertise is the parry prevention mark, having a total of 112 expertise is needed to make the DW tanking even more possible. And furthermore wouldn't that aspect also eliminate the design of whatever speed weapon you have because you are not going to be parried anyway? Although slow appears to be the weapon of choice I am noticing, which seems to have suitable output for dps as well as threat generation.

So, not trying to make an argument but with that amount of expertise, should make DW tanking that much more possible yes?
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby amh » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:31 am

SherKhan wrote:perhaps if we can agree on that 56 expertise is the parry prevention mark, having a total of 112 expertise is needed to make the DW tanking even more possible.


Your expertise-skill counts for both weapons, so it's 56 total.


Gonna have to double-check this part:
The only time you'll see different expertise-numbers on your MH / OH is if you have a racial that gives you expertise for one type, but not for both, in which case it will look something like this:

Expertise: 23 / 28.
(dwarf DK wielding sword / mace, in this case)


As far as I know you don't have a higher chance of being parried with your OH-attacks.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby SherKhan » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:41 am

That certainly works for me, I am still working a DK intended for testing and using that setup. In any event it appears possible, and using those numbers is a good way to shut the mouthes of naysayers as well.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Punkss2 » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:04 pm

Where can i go to check out the basics of frost DK DW? I'ts been forever since I have really played my DK and I would like to try DWing out. Any info will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Fenris » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:45 am

Punkss2 wrote:Where can i go to check out the basics of frost DK DW? I'ts been forever since I have really played my DK and I would like to try DWing out. Any info will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Punk

EJ forums have a dw-tanking topic floating around,with quite some useful infos
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby ulushnar » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:26 am

Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby amh » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:28 pm

amh wrote:Gonna have to double-check this part:
The only time you'll see different expertise-numbers on your MH / OH is if you have a racial that gives you expertise for one type, but not for both, in which case it will look something like this:

Expertise: 23 / 28.
(dwarf DK wielding sword / mace, in this case)


This part was correct, at least. Only took me one ignore, two fake afks and one logoff before I cornered a warrior to try it out :p
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Punkss2 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:58 pm

Ty for the replies. I will have to check them out when I get off of work tonight :)
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Drunkheifer » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:59 am

Just a heads up for those of you that are looking for 2 slow 1h weapons for DW'ing. There is a nice 1h ilvl 219 mace that drops in H 5man ToC, and another VERY nice ilvl 226 mace that drops from the brewfest going on right now. They are both 2.6 weapon speed maces. Its a BoE if you are havning bad luck finding it, I have them both on my DK if you wanted to armory him its Trixci on Magtheridon. I am at work so i can't provide links to these weapons or his armory.

The mace from H 5man TOC is Alendars <sp?> Battlestar, and the Brewfest mace is "tankard o' <can't think of last part>"
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