Idea: Training Dummies that hits back

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Postby Splug » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:05 pm

While Blizzard has been much more receptive of theorycraft and the WoW community has taken a lot of advances to expose as much of the game mechanics as possible, it's not exactly their job to provide us with easier access to that data. If anything, it'd take a bit of the fun out of deciphering it.

That said, I thing training dummies are an excellent resource for say, the beta - where bug testing skills close to a respec trainer has advantages. I honestly do not think that is a mechanic that should have gone live, but as always it's just my opinion.

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Postby crabcrouton » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:11 pm

Elsie wrote:Actually you're mistaken. The whole point of wanting it is to get hard data on how the mitigation of each tank compares to each other. From a healer perspective, it would let me learn (and thus write guides) how heal pacing has changed. Here's what you should be looking at:

1. Healer pacing data
2. Mitigation effectiveness
3. average vs burst variability on tanks (holy shield vs shield/crit block)
4. Avoidance Diminishing Returns formula (per level)
5. Mana consumption data (for healers at a given pace)
6. Rage/power/mana relative generation
7. Relative strength of Cool Downs for tanks
8. Expected uptime of proc effects

The only relevent thing you posted is spell vs physical damage, and even that would matter only to 2 and 3.

How would any of that information serve to make a fair assessment when you know that the fight isn't modeled like a real fight to begin with?

In other words, if you know that the fight isn't realistic, then you've just failed at your aim, which is:
"to get hard data on how the mitigation of each tank compares to each other. From a healer perspective"


If you end up concluding that Tank A has X mitigation more than Tank B or requires Y more amount of healing to keep up, then that's only true under that subset of specific basic context. Then you're happily patting yourself on the back about how you calculated X or Y and that's the assumption you bring to a raid.

The moment you walk into a real fight, then Warrior B might turn out to be drastically more or less mitigation due to the mechanics of the fight. That's like calculating that a ferrari is X faster than a Land Rover (on a well-paved road) and then you take it offroad and wonder why it's so slow.

I can -easily- prove that when a boss changes Phases, that Tanks A B C and D relative to each other will all change on the following areas:

1. Healer pacing data
2. Mitigation effectiveness
3. average vs burst variability on tanks (holy shield vs shield/crit block
5. Mana consumption data (for healers at a given pace)
6. Rage/power/mana relative generation
7. Relative strength of Cool Downs for tanks
8. Expected uptime of proc effects

The only data that you would keep is #4. Data from an impossibly simple set of situations is junk data because real fights have mechanics that drastically effect their relativeness.
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Postby Lightbreak » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:32 pm

I'm just imagining the pile of dead bodies encircling these new dummies.
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Postby kurros » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:38 pm

This is a great idea.

They could also make these training dummies killable, and when killed they would drop loot and give xp. I'd expect that these training dummys would be a lot more popular than the current ones, so instead of limiting them to the capital cities they could be spread all around the world, wandering in every zone. Some could even be placed in instances. Blizzard could come up with a huge variesty of abilities and graphics for these training dummies, some could be dragons, others undead, and still some would be humaniods. Some could be tuned for 5 man groups, and others would be balanced towards 10 or 25 man raids.

I think you really are onto something, Blizzard should implement this right away!
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. Go away, or I'll just start reporting you to the mods for being a troll. In exchange, I'll stop pointing out your stupid in public.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:39 pm

Then they could just give you a "Test" option for istances, so you enter in, see if you can kill the boss without risking repairs, then when you see you can you turn off the test flag and kill it.


Please, dreaming is fun, but let's not be stupid.
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Postby crabcrouton » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:47 pm

Worldie wrote:Then they could just give you a "Test" option for istances, so you enter in, see if you can kill the boss without risking repairs, then when you see you can you turn off the test flag and kill it.


Please, dreaming is fun, but let's not be stupid.

This is a terrific idea.

I'd say also remove the trash mobs and just let the raid get to the test fight. A lot of progression raid wipes occur because people aren't used to how the fight looks (oddly enough). Getting used to a fight in a test mode would be great.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:51 pm

I'm not sure if with that reply you were serious or not.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby crabcrouton » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:55 pm

lmao I was dead serious.
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Postby majiben » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:00 pm

It would work well for PTRs testing new content.
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Postby Emilia » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:35 pm

I can agree on one that hits for 1 damage only and at different speeds to be able to test reactive damage abilitys DPS or to just be able to test TPS but thats as far as it should ever go.
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Postby Tinae » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:52 pm

Just do what I do when playing with rotation. Get a rogue, duel them, and just have em auto attack while you play.
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Re: Idea: Training Dummies that hits back

Postby Bundy » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:26 am

I dont think its that far fetched. I never really used the dummies myself but for maybe 15 secs when I first noticed them. I dont see how its fair that only dps classes can practice there moves and what not while tanks just have to go in there and tank shit. Dont get me wrong, im fine with that personaly, but in the bigger picture its not exactly fair ya know.

It wouldnt be that difficult to give the dummy options. Like being able to set up its attack power and speed, and see how your debuffs effect that exactly, and how much you actualy block with your shield and such. Even have it do magic damage to see how much your resist gear takes off per spell. Again, I probably wouldnt use them myself becuase I dont use the ones now, but it wouldnt hurt anyone if they did. Not everyone knows all these theorycraft formulas and maybe some people arent good at math, I dunno. But its really not that big od a deal, it wouldnt give anyone an unfair advantage or anything.
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Re: Idea: Training Dummies that hits back

Postby Barathorn » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:29 am

Oct 22nd - June 21st
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Re:

Postby bldavis » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:43 pm

Lightbreak wrote:I'm just imagining the pile of dead bodies encircling these new dummies.



OMG! LOL :lol: :lol:

that would be hilarious!

another idea, have like the fire dummies in IF, the Arcane in SM, Holy in SW, Physical in OR, lol that would be hilarious seeing a city raid, just to use the dummies!

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