[10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

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[10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby spiky_porcupine » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:07 am

So my guild’s 2nd group went to do hardmode for the first time last night, and we were able to down Beasts on our 5th attempt, but wiped over 15 times on Jaraxxus, with the best attempt around 30%. I always thought Jaraxxus is easier, but looks like I’m wrong. Our problem seems to be that a DPS dies somehow instantly within 2 seconds and we don’t have the DPS to catch up anymore after that. Healing seems to be an issue too since incinerate flesh got off a few times, though it seems to always go off when we have 4 infernos up. Our make up is this:

Tanks:
Pally (OT)
DK (MT)

Healers:
Pally
Shaman
Druid

DPS:
Rogue
Hunter
Warlock
Mage

Last DPS spot we had people switch in and out, but were either feral druid, enhance shaman, or boomkin. We are good at killing portals, where only 1 maiden spawns 95% of the times, and best at 2 inferno spawn. Problem starts when somehow a DPS (usually rogue) dies when volcano/inferno spawns and we fall behind on the next portal phase. Is it necessary for the tank to get aggro on the volcano? I know the portal does damage to melee, but is that the case for volcano as well?
Another issue is when pally gets maiden’s kiss, incinerate flesh usually gets off.
Infernos are also a big issue since that seems to be when incinerate flesh gets off as healers try to heal raid more.
We had was many raid members had less than 20k HP due to no fort, shout and no imp in the later half attempts as warlock had to go, any suggestions to go against this? Scroll was used on the lower HP raid members already. We will probably bring an alt priest to buff before the pull next week, would that make a big difference though?

Thanks~
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby Roots » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:05 pm

I noticed our rogue died more than once due to that inferno debuff (spawns green flames) right behind the boss. Tbh I just moved Jax (ala hodir's runes) away from flames, most of the time I moved him away when infernos targeted melee, and our problems resolved themselves.

edit: no, don't need to get aggro on volcanoes. I also moved Jax to each portal/volcano to throw extra damage from aoe/myself as well, and the volcano doesn't have an aggro table
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby Belloc » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:18 pm

First thing's first: Single tank this fight. An off-tank will do you no good on this fight when you can easily pick up all of the adds. The extra dps, however, will do an insane amount of good. Not only will the boss and adds die faster, but less adds will spawn.



Side note: I never understood why rogues die to AOEs like fire. They have a nifty little ability called "Feint" that reduces the AOE damage they take by 50%. There's no excuse.
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby maurok » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:31 pm

Single tanking this fight is great... the extra DPS really helps downing the portals and killing adds fast.
the only threatening part for the tank is while dpsers are killing adds and they can't help you interrupting fireballs, especially with the elementals.. the healers have to heal you, heal incinerate flesh, legion flames and the damage from the adds on the raid, so if you get a fireball by then, it might be a problem.

focus on jaraxxus (so you can see the cast while hitting adds) and macro for HoJ is great to interrupt the fireball while there are adds involved
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby spiky_porcupine » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:27 am

I tried the idea of solo tanking this fight in normal yesterday. I asked the DK OT who went DPS to focus on boss to interrupt except when portal spawns, but go back on boss when portal is dead as practice. Now the main thing is, I seem to take a LOT of damage with maiden & boss on me. My HP went from full to 20% in a single global. That's with 2 healers. I'm assuming you guys are solo tanking with 3 healers as well? I can't see how it can be 1 tank 2 healed, especially if the pally gets maiden's kiss.

How many inferno adds do you guys usually get with 6 DPS that hover around 4-5k DPS in hardmode compared to 5? Max of 3 infernoes or usually just 2?

Have people tried maybe 2 tank 2 healing it? Last thought is if people know how the portal/inferno spawn works so that the melee can prepare a few seconds before it spawns without wasting time in movement?
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby Belloc » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:26 am

This is a 3 healer instance. Two healers on Beasts, Jaraxxus and Twins is just making it insanely more difficult than it needs to be. I don't even understand how you can get past phase 1 beasts with two healers.

3 heal it. My 6 DPS, last night, consisted of a 5k+, a couple 4ks, and 3 3.7-3.8ks. Jaraxxus was an easy two shot (even with one of the DPS standing in a fire and dying less than halfway through the fight).

With our dps, we saw 2 infernals every time, even after we lost our rogue. If your dps is all putting out 4-5k dps, you'll have it just as well.
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby Worldie » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:01 am

Meh this is not true, you need 3 healers (2 if one is a paladin) only on Faction Champions and Valkyrs. Beasts and Jaraxxus are easily doable with 2 healers (done it personally multiple times both as tank and healer). Anub really can't be done with 3 without some insane overgearing from the DPS.
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby Belloc » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:31 am

I'd never attempt beasts with less than 3 healers, personally... There's no way my group would survive.

And faction champions only seemed to require 2 =/
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby fafhrd » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:44 am

Worldie wrote:Anub really can't be done with 3 without some insane overgearing from the DPS.


Eh? Pretty sure a 2 burrow kill works ok with 3 healers and no insane overgearing. We were close several times with 3 healers and 1 burrow with mediocre gear (and no heroism), I'd expect plenty have actually pulled off kills like that with a shaman.
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:26 pm

We two heal with a resto druid and shaman, and cleared heroic with 2 wipes -- one to FC, one to a bad transition on Anub.

My second heroic 10 group will likely run 3 healers -- tried 2 last week and didn't get very far (different caliber of player makeup as well, tbqh).

What works for one raid won't work for another. It might be worth 3-healing until you get the hang of the instance, and scale back from there.
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby spiky_porcupine » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:49 am

Solo tanking strat worked like a charm. The add went down faster, and max of 3 inferno at any given time made our lives much easier. We still 3 healed it since maistress' kiss can ruin if it's on the pally twice in a row.
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby Nikachelle » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:14 am

We dabbled with this over the weekend with three pugs since not enough regulars showed up (gee... sound familiar anyone?). Two tank strategy wasn't cutting it since I kept the rogue on the boss to interrupt so that left only four dps on the adds. We'd sometimes get two mistress' from a portal and sometimes four inferno thingies. So I might attempt the single tank idea next time we go.

One question though... is there anything that can be done about the Mistral's Kiss? We're running with three healers (typically druid, priest and shaman, although it varies) and it seems our shaman is getting severely locked out of his spells. One raider suggested that the kiss only locks you out of one school of magic, so if he flame shocked the boss, he'd be locked out of fire spells, but could still heal. Does anyone know if this is true? If it's not true, how are the healers (particularly the shaman) supposed to deal with incinerate flesh when they've got that debuff?
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby Belloc » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:59 am

Nikachelle wrote:We dabbled with this over the weekend with three pugs since not enough regulars showed up (gee... sound familiar anyone?). Two tank strategy wasn't cutting it since I kept the rogue on the boss to interrupt so that left only four dps on the adds. We'd sometimes get two mistress' from a portal and sometimes four inferno thingies. So I might attempt the single tank idea next time we go.

One question though... is there anything that can be done about the Mistral's Kiss? We're running with three healers (typically druid, priest and shaman, although it varies) and it seems our shaman is getting severely locked out of his spells. One raider suggested that the kiss only locks you out of one school of magic, so if he flame shocked the boss, he'd be locked out of fire spells, but could still heal. Does anyone know if this is true? If it's not true, how are the healers (particularly the shaman) supposed to deal with incinerate flesh when they've got that debuff?

Mistress' Kiss will interrupt the first non-instant cast that you attempt. So, yeah, a shaman can simply cast a non-nature spell and have that interrupted.

Also, someone mentioned a more advanced technique that you can attempt, though I'd suggest the previous advice. The advanced technique is to start casting a spell and then cancel the cast. If you time it properly, the interrupt will go off after you've canceled the cast. You'll take the damage, but nothing will be locked out.

So, again, the best thing a healer can do is to cast a non-instant spell from a different school and have that interrupted.
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby Nikachelle » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:01 am

Belloc wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:We dabbled with this over the weekend with three pugs since not enough regulars showed up (gee... sound familiar anyone?). Two tank strategy wasn't cutting it since I kept the rogue on the boss to interrupt so that left only four dps on the adds. We'd sometimes get two mistress' from a portal and sometimes four inferno thingies. So I might attempt the single tank idea next time we go.

One question though... is there anything that can be done about the Mistral's Kiss? We're running with three healers (typically druid, priest and shaman, although it varies) and it seems our shaman is getting severely locked out of his spells. One raider suggested that the kiss only locks you out of one school of magic, so if he flame shocked the boss, he'd be locked out of fire spells, but could still heal. Does anyone know if this is true? If it's not true, how are the healers (particularly the shaman) supposed to deal with incinerate flesh when they've got that debuff?

Mistress' Kiss will interrupt the first non-instant cast that you attempt. So, yeah, a shaman can simply cast a non-nature spell and have that interrupted.

Also, someone mentioned a more advanced technique that you can attempt, though I'd suggest the previous advice. The advanced technique is to start casting a spell and then cancel the cast. If you time it properly, the interrupt will go off after you've canceled the cast. You'll take the damage, but nothing will be locked out.

So, again, the best thing a healer can do is to cast a non-instant spell from a different school and have that interrupted.


Bear with me since I don't know much about Shaman healing. All shaman healing spells are nature right? If that's the case, what other spell could they use that is not nature related and not an instant cast? Lightning bolt is nature right?
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Re: [10m Heroic] Lord Jaraxxus

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:27 am

Lava Burst is all that comes to mind.
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