3.0 Frequently *Answered* Questions - Tankadin basics.

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Postby Gamingdevil » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:06 pm

Panzerdin wrote:I, on the other hand, am a PoJ whore and maintain that you should take it by default, because you've nowhere else to put the points anyway, while the 15% speed increase can be a lifesaver when you need to avoid environmental hazards.


Problem is you have to take 4 filler points for it. I like it, but it's too big of a waste of talent points imo.
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Postby steadypal » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:05 pm

so

SotP + tuskarrs

vs

poj + 22 stam and NO SotP



??
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Postby knaughty » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:40 pm

Panzerdin wrote:while the 15% speed increase can be a lifesaver when you need to avoid environmental hazards.

Which is why you bring an Unholy DK and have it raid-wide on everyone.
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540 defense cap

Postby Sadgrinner » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:35 pm

First, let me say I'm asking in this location since this thread was mentioned as an important 'must read'. The question came up as I pondered a (now locked) thread, started by a poster who didn't seem to articulate his thoughts very well and also didn't display an appropriate level of consideration to the suggestions of other posters, found here: http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... hp?t=19903

Anyway, the question of that failed thread was this: "Why do we need 540 defense when we could stack dodge?" Which obviously was shot down. You must have 540! You must have 540! Were by and large the general responses. (Also, "you've refused to read any of the material we've told you to read!" made a strong showing.)

However... I realized the question/idea has value if stated in a slightly different context. Please bear with me.

Let's assume that a player has 540 defense *AND* is block-capped - this player's combined miss/dodge/parry/block values all come out to over 102.4%. If that user was able to drop some defense rating, thus bringing his or her total to under 540, *YET* that user was able to replace the lost avoidance and mitigation with some other rating (either block, dodge, or parry), thus bringing him/her back above the block-cap (102.4%), then he or she would still be uncrittable.

In the lone case where you can magically reach the block cap without 540 defense, then no, you do not actually need 540 defense to be uncrittable.

Of course, you can only use all of your avoidance when you are facing a mob - you can't dodge attacks from behind, for example. So you could still be crit if you were turned away from a mob and had less than 540 defense.

So we add the final addendum: Assuming you are always facing the mob, and provided you've found some way to reach the block cap with less defense rating than would take you to 540 defense (note that in all likelihood such gear does not exist), you do not need 540 defense to be uncrittable.
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Re: 540 defense cap

Postby knaughty » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:01 pm

Sadgrinner wrote:<block capped while critable>


Technically true, but I'm unsure it is actually possible in practice given available gear.

You might be able to put something if you used a lot of block rating and gemmed dodge.

It just isn't a sensible goal, and it also is very fragile. If you ever have HS fall off or get hit from behind you can take a crit.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:20 pm

Let's assume that a player has 540 defense *AND* is block-capped - this player's combined miss/dodge/parry/block values all come out to over 102.4%. If that user was able to drop some defense rating, thus bringing his or her total to under 540, *YET* that user was able to replace the lost avoidance and mitigation with some other rating (either block, dodge, or parry), thus bringing him/her back above the block-cap (102.4%), then he or she would still be uncrittable.

HS can fall off sometimes if you're using the 96969 rotation. Also, you'd be screwed if the mob pathed poorly or has a stun (Maexxna, grobbulus).
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Postby Gamingdevil » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:31 am

It probably is possible if you only stack gear with block rating on it. But then the point would be moot, since instead of stacking extra avoidance, you're desperately looking for block. While you could just make sure you're always uncrittable and stack whatever you want untill block cap is reached naturally.

Also, like others have said, there are worst case scenarios where you will get hit through holy shield or other avoidance. You don't want that, you should just stack 540 defense to be sure.
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Postby Foolosophy » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:35 pm

Hello all,

After I've been lurking around for quite some time, I thought: lets register and ask a question. I'm an (hopefully) ever-improving paladin who's playing since TBC. I took a little brake just before WotLK and now I'm back and running again. I made my move into Naxx 10 & 25 and tanked quite a few meanies successfully. Surviving and having no threat problems. Although, I'm using 'my own' rotation, but I've lately read that there is a specific good 969 rotation. And here is the thing: I can't really get that one down. Does anyone have a good reference for me? Like an fully updated rotation example?

And I've also read (around here, can't remember where) that judgement comes after ShoR, is this true? I now use it constantly before ShoR because of the extra damage.

Greetings,
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Postby majiben » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:23 pm

Elsie wrote:
Let's assume that a player has 540 defense *AND* is block-capped - this player's combined miss/dodge/parry/block values all come out to over 102.4%. If that user was able to drop some defense rating, thus bringing his or her total to under 540, *YET* that user was able to replace the lost avoidance and mitigation with some other rating (either block, dodge, or parry), thus bringing him/her back above the block-cap (102.4%), then he or she would still be uncrittable.

HS can fall off sometimes if you're using the 96969 rotation. Also, you'd be screwed if the mob pathed poorly or has a stun (Maexxna, grobbulus).
HS can not fall off if you are using the 96969 rotation. However there are a multitude of ways for you to take an unblocked hit and you never sacrifice 540 defense for additional and minute avoidance (and you will never get more than minute avoidance from dropping below 540 defense for dodge rating).
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Postby Mozen » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:13 pm

HS can fall off if you're delaying your keypresses for too long.

HS > 6 > 9 > 6 > 9 > 6 > HS > ...

To have the next HS up, you will go through 6 key-presses (the last keypress being your HS key). If you delay each for 0.2 seconds, then total dead-time is 1.2 seconds.

HS up for 10s > 6GCDs+1.2s = 10.2s > next HS pressed

So, if you're not tight on your fingers, you will end up seeing the previous HS fade just as you press you key for HS. Raid haste buffs will help with this, so it shouldn't really happen too often.
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Postby knaughty » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:32 am

Mozen wrote:HS can fall off if you're delaying your keypresses for too long.

HS > 6 > 9 > 6 > 9 > 6 > HS > ...

To have the next HS up, you will go through 6 key-presses (the last keypress being your HS key). If you delay each for 0.2 seconds, then total dead-time is 1.2 seconds.

GCD lockout is calculated client-side. Lag is not an issue. And given you're dealing with a fixed "beat", once you have your rhythm, you should be "lagging" by less than a tenth of a second.
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Re: 3.0 Frequently *Answered* Questions - Tankadin basics.

Postby Choco21 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:34 am

GCD lockout is calculated client-side. Lag is not an issue. And given you're dealing with a fixed "beat", once you have your rhythm, you should be "lagging" by less than a tenth of a second.

HS can not fall off if you are using the 96969 rotation. However there are a multitude of ways for you to take an unblocked hit and you never sacrifice 540 defense for additional and minute avoidance (and you will never get more than minute avoidance from dropping below 540 defense for dodge rating).

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